How loving is your god?

[GSM:Xtreme]

I'm wondering, with all the cruelty and violence in the Bible, Quran, and most (if not all) other religious books-- acts that make even Hitler look merciful-- why people still believe they follow a wonderful, loving god. In many chapters of the bible, Jehovah can be found mass murdering, encouraging rape and slavery, and even causing mass genocides. Are people so ignorant that they just think what they hear in church every Sunday is the whole story? Or is his creating of humanity enough to outweigh acts such as the murder of every human being alive less one family? I think not, what about you?

Due to length restraints (this is my first poll ), I've listed below the options. 1,2,3,4 respectively. Just pick the one that matches it.

Sure, they kill thousands, but in the end they love me and that's what counts

Yes. The events of the Old Testemant can be forgotten, as well as it's teachings of slavery, rape, the stoning of children etc.

No. They're responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, and condemn everyone who does not follow them to eternal torcher

What gods? You mean the imaginary friend that the wise used for thousands of years to manipulate and control the weak?

[Technosoul]

Indeed the Biblical God does demand conformity and seems to have originated the idea of holy wars.

War is in fact the number one religion in the world.

Jesus must be used a our lawyer to get God to show us mercy, according to some teachings.

I do not know why John wrote that "God is Love". But then what is Love - as that word also can discribe many things. Basically love means "attraction". Or a force that causes an attraction - like gravity of the sun relative to the earth.

If the earth suddenly was attracted to the gravity of the moon, or Mars, and was unfaithfull to the gravity commandments of the the Sun, then woe, it would be doomsday for us all.
As the earth would leave it's orbit and forsake the will of this solar system.

What do you think love is anyway?

So stay in orbit as commanded or else.

[freedom13]

Quote by: GSM:Xtreme I'm wondering, with all the cruelty and violence in the Bible, Quran, and most (if not all) other religious books-- acts that make even Hitler look merciful-- why people still believe they follow a wonderful, loving god. In many chapters of the bible, Jehovah can be found mass murdering, encouraging rape and slavery, and even causing mass genocides. Are people so ignorant that they just think what they hear in church every Sunday is the whole story? Or is his creating of humanity enough to outweigh acts such as the murder of every human being alive less one family? I think not, what about you? Due to length restraints (this is my first poll ), I've listed below the options. 1,2,3,4 respectively. Just pick the one that matches it. Sure, they kill thousands, but in the end they love me and that's what counts Yes. The events of the Old Testemant can be forgotten, as well as it's teachings of slavery, rape, the stoning of children etc. No. They're responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, and condemn everyone who does not follow them to eternal torcher What gods? You mean the imaginary friend that the wise used for thousands of years to manipulate and control the weak?

Since, you are comparing Lucifer Hitler to Jehovah - Yahweh, how about you list the bible scriptures to prove your point.

In the meantime here is the historical proof of Lucifer Hitler mass murdering and genocides.

History of the Holocaust, Jewish Holocaust, the Nazi Holocaust, Human Rights Violations History of the Holocaust - 1938-1945-6,000,000 Deaths It began with a simple boycott of Jewish shops and ended in the gas chambers at Auschwitz as Adolf Hitler and his Nazi followers attempted to exterminate the entire Jewish population of Europe. In January 1933, after a bitter ten-year political struggle, Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany. During his rise to power, Hitler had repeatedly blamed the Jews for Germany's defeat in World War I and subsequent economic hardships. Hitler also put forward racial theories asserting that Germans with fair skin, blond hair and blue eyes were the supreme form of human, or master race. The Jews, according to Hitler, were the racial opposite, and were actively engaged in an international conspiracy to keep this master race from assuming its rightful position as rulers of the world. Jews at this time composed only about one percent of Germany's population of 55 million persons. German Jews were mostly cosmopolitan in nature and proudly considered themselves to be Germans by nationality and Jews only by religion. They had lived in Germany for centuries, fought bravely for the Fatherland in its wars and prospered in numerous professions. But they were gradually shut out of German society by the Nazis through a never-ending series of laws and decrees, culminating in the Nuremberg Laws of 1935, which deprived them of their German citizenship and forbade intermarriage with non-Jews. They were removed from schools, banned from the professions, excluded from military service, and were even forbidden to share a park bench with a non-Jew.

[freefallife]

Kind of goes along with my "God and Evil" thread. I think the existance of superfluous pain and suffering is the very reason that gods do not exist.

[Socrates]

Some argue that life with all its suffering is perfect, and we would never be content in a idilic world, unless who we are was also changed, but then we wouldn't be human which sort of defeats the point.

[Morality Games]

If divinity exists, it is either functionally non-existent (does not do anything which relates to us) or imperceptibly non-existent (does not do anything we can empirically relate to the divinity).

What I mean is, perhaps something we would call 'God' created the universe (or, as I am induced to think, multiverse) and has adhered to a "hand's off" policy since then, or maybe this 'God' continues to influence the universe, but presently only in an empirically unverifiable way.

[HelioPrime]

People often forget it's other people who commit modern atrocities.

Were the crusades really the result of people pleasing their gods or people pleasing warlords and bishops using a shield of religion to accomplish their goals of greed. I think the greed.

People tend to be very quick to label religion at fault for anything done in the name of god(s). The real blame lies just in human nature. Look at communist China and the former Soviet Union. Plenty of examples of extreme human uncaring and ultra nationalism. No religion needed, just terror and hate in the name of the state.

[Jack]

You don't need to convince non-believers that humans are at the bottom of all atrocities, as well as being responsible for all acts of genuine kindness.

But when a group of humans commit atrocities in the name of their god, following what they interpret as edicts from their sacred writings, it's a reasonable conclusion that their belief that they are inspired and blessed by their god is a contributing factor to their inhumanity.

[HelioPrime]

Naturally an abuse in the name of god would not be good. But I don't translate those abusing their faith into meaning the entire faith system is to blame. If were going to play that game we might as well say television, movies, and magazines should all be trashed because they affect minds.

[Derach]

Quote by: HelioPrime Naturally an abuse in the name of god would not be good. But I don't translate those abusing their faith into meaning the entire faith system is to blame. If were going to play that game we might as well say television, movies, and magazines should all be trashed because they affect minds.

If the institution is deemed to do more general harm than good ... then most certainly it should be banned, restricted, or relegated to the same status as TV, movies, and magazines (ie. not given tax free status and preferential government recognition).

Countless lives have been destroyed in the name of Christianity and even more in the name of religion in general ... by the same token, there have been even more people whose lives have been inspired and have done great deeds in the name of God ... but at some point, the greater religion must act both on behalf of victims of the past, and on those still being abused, to stop the abuse of power that plagues any organization, but is especially troubling when the greatest (self-proclaimed) moral authority in the universe is being used as a device of repression, torture, fear, or abuse.

The experiment has repeatedly failed ... religious leadership that is granted to humans will lead to an abuse of power ... religion is fine, but it must remain a personal quest ... the hierarchy and misinterpretations of modern organized religion does not deserve the benefit of the doubt that it will lead its masses with less use of opression and violence than it has in the past.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Derach The experiment has repeatedly failed ... religious leadership that is granted to humans will lead to an abuse of power ... religion is fine, but it must remain a personal quest ... the hierarchy and misinterpretations of modern organized religion does not deserve the benefit of the doubt that it will lead its masses with less use of opression and violence than it has in the past.

The most dangerous and repressive branch of faith at the current time is Islam which has no hierarchy. It has no central leadership and relies on individual guidance by preachers. Some choose to teach hatred. There is no authority within their religion to denounce or remove those who preach such a message.

You might in this case putting religion into the personal hands to people to interpret as they see fit had a more dangerous side effect than a central authority.

[Judicator]

Quote by: freedom13 Since, you are comparing Lucifer Hitler to Jehovah - Yahweh, how about you list the bible scriptures to prove your point. In the meantime here is the historical proof of Lucifer Hitler mass murdering and genocides.

God has killed approximately 32.9 million people. This depends largely on your estimate of the world population at the time of the flood. His estimate (30mil) seems accurate:

Historical Estimates of World Population

For a fully detailed list of everything he did:

Dwindling In Unbelief: How many has God killed? (Complete list and estimated total)

[GSM:Xtreme]

Quote by: freedom13 Since, you are comparing Lucifer Hitler to Jehovah - Yahweh, how about you list the bible scriptures to prove your point.

Thank you, Judicator, for that prime list of inhumane godly murders. Now, not only is murder inhumane, but so are the other passages I've listed below. It is kind of sad if you didn't know any of these, which is why I stopped putting the passage numbers next to them. Why? Because a good Christian like you should have read the Bible plenty of times, because it would be stupid to follow a book for absolutely no reason. (If not, which I assume is the case, then that just goes to prove the point that most atheists and agnostics do have more knowledge of the Christian bible, dogma, and everything else than actual practicing Christians.)

Murdering kids that fight with their parents: Deut 21:18, 21

Murdering witches (shows how much god knew about the world he created, unless the ancient people managed to kill all of them before now.)

Allowing severe slave abuse: Exodus 21:20-21

Slaughtering innocent children (well, they were making fun of a bald guy): 2 Kings 2:23-24

People who do not live in poverty are going to hell (guess the bishops, pope, and builders of the Vatican forgot about that... but in their own book?): Luke 18:22

Jesus comes first, not your family (wasn't that Hitler's policy for the Nazi boys, or was that Mussolini's little wolfs?): Matt 10:37

Can't forget about slaughtering people because they can't pronounce Shibboleth: Judges 12:5-6

Murdering every firstborn of every family in Egypt because of one man? and don't forget the rest of the plagues that starved them

Encouraging slavery

Selling your daughter as a sex slave

Murdering gays

And my personal favorite,
Condemning people who commit blaspheme to spend an eternity burning in hell (wonder how well that kept the priests in charge and their power absolute?): Levi 24:16, Acts 3:23



Enough? And by the way, I'm sure that the battlegrounds where God ordered mass genocides wouldn't have looked much different than your picture.

P.S. How much violence does the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster have? None! How many holy wars have we started? None! How many people strap bombs to themselves in the name of 72 virgins and pleasing their god? None! Who offers you an eternity of beer volcano and strippers? The Flying Spaghetti Monster! We all see who is the most loving deity of all I guess?Can I get a RAmen!

[ChaChynga]

Gods which gods?

As far as hitler, his jews were the cause of the war, and basically it was a turf war and a my ___ is a bigger ____ than your ____ thing. All based on pride and lust.

[leegao]

So you believe that the Jews who followed their God was the one to start a nonsensical conflict with Germany solely for their "antiChrist" religion?

I definitely agree especially since the Jews believes in the same God of Abraham as you do. Boy, God must be pretty evil then, right?

[Piscean]

All that violent murderous stuff written in religious books is written by the hands of men, and how can anything in the hands of men be trusted, from what I've seen they degrade, cheapen, twist and otherwise manipulate things according to their own agendas, have you seen any different?

[Piscean]

Condemning people who commit blaspheme to spend an eternity burning in hell (wonder how well that kept the priests in charge and their power absolute?): Levi 24:16, Acts 3:23




AMEN

[Piscean]

Because a good Christian like you should have read the Bible plenty of times, because it would be stupid to follow a book for absolutely no reason. (If not, which I assume is the case, then that just goes to prove the point that most atheists and agnostics do have more knowledge of the Christian bible, dogma, and everything else than actual practicing Christians.)


AMEN AGAIN!!

[Piscean]

Countless lives have been destroyed in the name of Christianity and even more in the name of religion in general ... by the same token, there have been even more people whose lives have been inspired and have done great deeds in the name of God ... but at some point, the greater religion must act both on behalf of victims of the past, and on those still being abused, to stop the abuse of power that plagues any organization, but is especially troubling when the greatest (self-proclaimed) moral authority in the universe is being used as a device of repression, torture, fear, or abuse.

AMEN ONE MORE TIME!!

[ChaChynga]

Quote by: leegao So you believe that the Jews who followed their God was the one to start a nonsensical conflict with Germany solely for their "antiChrist" religion? I definitely agree especially since the Jews believes in the same God of Abraham as you do. Boy, God must be pretty evil then, right?

Should have read the bible, these jews their god is satan the devil or whomever that you'd call them.

The God of the Israelites (not these jews) is the God of Abraham. They only claimed to have Abraham as their father - this did not make them the Israelites, but that of EDOM the cause of many of the worlds problems.

Brush up on your biblical stuff before you spout off jack off.

Chachynga