God and evil

[Maryjane]

Cheese and rice Freedom,
Don't tell me you really believe that entire page of blathering nonsense? Some ranting lunatic spews forth a bunch of crap on the internet and people lick it right up. How convenient, blame the rational non believers for all the evil in the world.

[freefallife]

Quote by: freedom13 I didn't say evil weren't in the threads. I say the threads didn't make sense without Satan, because you are claiming God is evil instead of Satan or Satanism.

Who created Satan?

If Satan is evil, and god created satan, god created evil. How is that so hard to understand? The point of this thread was to JUSTIFY it.

Secondly, your source is blathering nonsence.

[freedom13]

Quote by: freefallife Who created Satan? If Satan is evil, and god created satan, god created evil. How is that so hard to understand? The point of this thread was to JUSTIFY it. Secondly, your source is blathering nonsence.

Did God create himself?

Beside, there are two sides of a person. Both God and Satan is a personification.

[freefallife]

Quote by: freedom13 Did God create himself?

That has nothing to do with this thread. Stop trying to derail the topic.

[freedom13]

Quote by: freefallife That has nothing to do with this thread. Stop trying to derail the topic.

No, that is not derailing! You say God create evil. Did God create himself?
Is that question so hard to understand?

[freefallife]

Quote by: freedom13 No, that is not derailing! You say God create evil. Did God create himself? Is that question so hard to understand?

Once again, this thread is not about the creation of god, but what god created. You want to debate who or what created god, start a thread. Stick to the topic. Justify the existance of evil in a universe created by a benevolent, merciful creator.

[Kuldeep]

I did not see, freefallife, your comments on my justification given at post no # 8 Last para in this thread.

[freedom13]

Quote by: freefallife Once again, this thread is not about the creation of god, but what god created. You want to debate who or what created god, start a thread. Stick to the topic. Justify the existance of evil in a universe created by a benevolent, merciful creator.

My answer was giving as Satan to your nonsense topic. I don't think you know the different between God and Satan to justify good or evil in the universe.

Answers the following questions and it will solve your mystery of God.

Is God perfect? Did God created good and evil?

[freefallife]

I appologize for not refuting every single person individually. I felt this had been covered in previous and subsequent posts.

Quote by: Kuldeep Here, I think loser has well said that Good and Bad, right and wrong, light and darkness...etc are relative; one without the other won't exist.

As I stated earlier in this thread, first, this idea that there must be evil to feel good does not justify the ENORMOUS amount of pain and suffering that exists. One would only need the smallest degree of pain to contrast that experience with pleasure.

As an analogy, I used color. A speck of yellow is all that is needed to appreciate the color blue.

So, to answer the questions in the OP, I would say these evils are created to fulfill the possibility of death of all those, which are bought to life.

A direct refutation of your attempt at justification is that not all evils lead to our deaths. If what you assert was indeed the case, then any evil that falls short of causing death is unjustified.

[freefallife]

Quote by: freedom13 My answer was giving as Satan to your nonsense topic. I don't think you know the different between God and Satan to justify good or evil in the universe.

If you think its nonsence, then by all means, stop participating in it.

Is God perfect?

According to theologans, yes.

Did God created good and evil?

I already showed this a number of times.

1. God created all that exists in the universe
2. Evil exists in the universe
3. GOD CREATED EVIL

Oh wait...Satan did it..right...then:

1.God created Satan
2. Satan is evil
3. GOD CREATED EVIL

No matter how you look at it, GOD CREATED EVIL. Refute those arguments or attempt to justify its existance. Otherwise, go away.

[Winter wind]

hiya! this looks interesting

Quote by: freefallife Who created Satan? If Satan is evil, and god created satan, god created evil. How is that so hard to understand? The point of this thread was to JUSTIFY it. Secondly, your source is blathering nonsence.

I actually am not going to claim to know much about this one, but there is a story I find interesting about Satan that views him as...well interesting. Apparently Lucifer was supposed to be God's favorite angel or something and when God told the angels to work with/for/under/whatever with the humans, Lucifer was stunned. He then tempted eve to prove "see, these guys are corruptible and weak, why do we have to work with them?" He got the boot for disobedience and now it's like he has this need to prove God wrong. That the choice serve us was pointless and insulting.

I'm not saying this is true, but it's a story that floats around. I can't help but wonder if it was true, whether maybe Lucifer would be forgiven in the end. If we can prove him wrong or something.

Just a bizarre idea.

Quote by: freedom Did God create himself?

Maybe the best question in return is did matter and energy create itself?
Did other things in nature like the laws of physics just appear from thin air?
Or is a force that was always there? I donno...

But maybe you could ask Him...

Quote by: freefallife Once again, this thread is not about the creation of god, but what god created. You want to debate who or what created god, start a thread. Stick to the topic. Justify the existance of evil in a universe created by a benevolent, merciful creator.

Who knows. But I can tell you for evil to exist, good must also exist.
I know this is a childish visual aid, but it's how I think of it...

(Good)------------------------(average)----------------------------------(Evil)

That is the spectrum which a human is capable of. But let's just say God only created Good.

(Good)

there is no comparison. So instead of being good, it's just average.
Evil needs to exist for good to have any meaning.

I don't know why He made it, but it's not like creating everything to be (good) would be any different. I think it adds color to life, to have imperfection in the world. It makes us much more active and interesting. (here i am saying evil is a good thing...)

Quote by: freefallife As I stated earlier in this thread, first, this idea that there must be evil to feel good does not justify the ENORMOUS amount of pain and suffering that exists. One would only need the smallest degree of pain to contrast that experience with pleasure.

Well, then let's take your idea.
Visual aid time

Good---------------average----------------evil
to
Good--------------average-evil
but that makes no sense so
Good------average-----evil

So creating the smallest degree of pain to contrast that experience would make a certain level of pleasure the norm. So eventually that level of pleasure becomes neutral and evil becomes that small margin. It's how we define our lives.

what would be an interesting idea is that this spectrum keeps increasing in the Good direction exponentially. So unexpected happiness is a constant thing.

Quote by: freefallife As an analogy, I used color. A speck of yellow is all that is needed to appreciate the color blue.

Good and evil is less of a stark difference and more of a spectrum.

[freedom13]

Quote by: freefallife If you think its nonsence, then by all means, stop participating in it. According to theologans, yes. I already showed this a number of times. 1. God created all that exists in the universe 2. Evil exists in the universe 3. GOD CREATED EVIL Oh wait...Satan did it..right...then: 1.God created Satan 2. Satan is evil 3. GOD CREATED EVIL No matter how you look at it, GOD CREATED EVIL. Refute those arguments or attempt to justify its existance. Otherwise, go away.

Is God perfect? Did God created good and evil?

The point of my questions was for you to be logical on the matter. Your argument is pointless about God and evil, because you refuse to balance the scale of the positive and negative or good and evil.

[Derach]

Evil is the metaphorical embodiment of man falling from God's grace. The definition of 'sin' in most Christian contexts is separation from God. So, if God created man in His image armed with free will, evil is the choice of men to part ways with God ... embodied metaphorically by Satan. It would be like creating a robot with enough AI that the thing actually rejects you as its owner. Did you create the rejection? ... well, sort of, yeah, when you empowered the robot to decide for itself which 'master to serve' ... or like adopting a dog that winds up turning on you. God made himself a toy and lo and behold, the toy has a feature (free will) that allows for a perception of 'evil'.

So yes, God created evil ... but perhaps as a sidenote that He unleashed by man's ability to decide for himself his own actions.

[JLrep]

freefallife,
You are either consistently failing to understand what I and others have been saying, or are consistently ignoring it.

I can keep this very simple. Suppose I make a window. I put it in the side of my house, knowing full well that someone could break it. Eventually, someone does come along and break it. Would you then question my workmanship by contesting that I had created a broken window?

God did not create evil because evil does not require creation. If anything, it requires destruction. Evil does not exist. "Exists" only applies to evil insofar as evil is not imaginary. The old clichés of heat and cold or darkness and light still apply. How do you make something cold? Is it by adding coldness to it? No, it's by subtracting heat. I don't know how to be more clear about this.

If you want I can respond to the side-notes as well, but I don't want to get off-track.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: jlep I can keep this very simple. Suppose I make a window. I put it in the side of my house, knowing full well that someone could break it. Eventually, someone does come along and break it. Would you then question my workmanship by contesting that I had created a broken window?

No, I'm taking freefall's side on this argument. I would question your workmanship if you created the person who would break the window and knew the person would break the window

[linda_mary_13]

The image of the scale not only symbolizes good vs lack of good (evil) but an entire apparatus is there. Obviously the government of that which is being measured. This really goes to the heart of theist vs atheist, Heaven, Hell and the Middle Place.

Looks like it leads to a new thread.

[linda_mary_13]

Quote by: Winter wind No, I'm taking freefall's side on this argument. I would question your workmanship if you created the person who would break the window and knew the person would break the window

The person who broke the window is the person that exists in this spectrum of right and wrong. Do you destroy the person because he is capable of doing wrong and then does it or do you try to show the person why what he has done is wrong? This I suggest is an example of the "middle".

[linda_mary_13]

If you look at the image of the scale, the weights stand alone. They were taken from something. That block that held the weights. The block has the holes that the weight came from which in the argument of good and evil depicts the lack of, but it is the block that holds the counter weight. I would suggest the block is symbolic of the Earth.

[pikatore]

On one hand, asking who created God is a silly question, even if asked tongue in cheek, as it pushes forward the idea that a God is subject to time.

But on the other hand, to claim that you God is either:
- not subject to time
- is eternal

is just as ridiculous, as noone could truly understand the concept of eternity, or more importantly, the lack of time, as we are designed (designed meaning 'used to') to exist totally within time.

It just shows how many dead ends spring up when we discuss a God. It's laughable how people have to explain to other people the characteristics of thier invisible friend, and then build up counter-arguments to opposition, which usually involves saying whatever contradicts the opposition. No matter if it sounds crazy or doesn't make sense, it's God - He defies logic.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: freefallife I don't see how this has anything to do with the justification of evil in the universe. I don't regect the basic notions of physics and mathematics. What I assert is that the laws of physics and mathematics have nothing to do with the existance of evil in the universe. Physics and mathematics do not justify the existance of disease, physically deformed newborn children or death by tornado.

Evil = Bad
God = Good
Do you agree with that concept and/or approach ?

Example : Disease
Disease is made of atoms.
Atoms carry (negative and positive) values, regardless of scope (which this case, it is sociology-related one).
Physics and Mathematics are the disciplines to define the sources - among other issues, scopes, fields, tasks, etc.

It applies to all the elements within the Universe we live-in.
If you think carefully enough, you would realize that your thought carries atoms as well, since You are the source that generates that Thought.