Agent Smith's argument (nihilism)

[triad]

Quote by: Winter wind First of I don't agree with Agent Smith, but I'm going to play devils advocate... What's the point of doing anything if the end result is the same. No matter what you do, it does nothing to change your result and how it effects you. You always end up a lifeless corpse no matter what. (I feel very self conscious making this argument with such a dumb avatar, not that mickey was much more powerful...)

PUAHAHA, your avatar and text made me burst out laughing.


Just thought I'd put that out there.

[Winter wind]

*fume*
I'm never betting anything again
It's up till the end of febuary

[Jack]

Quote by: Winter wind First of I don't agree with Agent Smith, but I'm going to play devils advocate... What's the point of doing anything if the end result is the same. No matter what you do, it does nothing to change your result and how it effects you. You always end up a lifeless corpse no matter what.

There's really no way to argue against that idea if a person is focused only on the end of life. It's true, and I find it impossible to argue with reality.

For those who want to apply meaning to their life, there are many options. You can make the most of life while it lasts based on what adds value to life in your opinion just because it's possible. You can choose to believe one of the many religions that teach there's life after death. You can attempt to achieve immortality through art, literature or notoriety. Perhaps having children will give you a feeling of immortality.

My opinion is that since I am alive, I might as well enjoy this short period on non-death (I was dead for billions of years and will be again), see what it's all about, take advantage of the opportunities it offers. I'm under no delusion that my life will make any significant dent in history or be long remembered. My life is of no value to anyone other than myself. If it ever loses its value to me, then it's time to depart.

[Derach]

Belief in an afterlife is not a prerequisite for having a life of value. When we touch another person's life, we add value to our own mortal life. It's like a huge networking scheme ... people who'se lives have value are the ones who positively touch other people ... coaches, teachers, parents ... any role model that positively influences someone else ... then they pass that influence on to somebody else. That gives your life meaning whether you go to heaven and get your wings, go to hell and get your horns, or turn in to vegetable fertilizer. (Which, by the way, doesn't mean you have ceased to exist in a strictly scientific sense).

[Winter wind]

Quote by: derach Belief in an afterlife is not a prerequisite for having a life of value. When we touch another person's life, we add value to our own mortal life. It's like a huge networking scheme ... people who'se lives have value are the ones who positively touch other people ... coaches, teachers, parents ... any role model that positively influences someone else ... then they pass that influence on to somebody else. That gives your life meaning whether you go to heaven and get your wings, go to hell and get your horns, or turn in to vegetable fertilizer. (Which, by the way, doesn't mean you have ceased to exist in a strictly scientific sense).

but touching other's lives still doesn't do anything because they only exist to exist.

We are only here because we are the thing that tried to hardest to exist. Anything else died out, but since we have a survival instinct, we survive longer.

Quote by: isherwood For those who want to apply meaning to their life, there are many options. You can make the most of life while it lasts based on what adds value to life in your opinion just because it's possible. You can choose to believe one of the many religions that teach there's life after death. You can attempt to achieve immortality through art, literature or notoriety. Perhaps having children will give you a feeling of immortality.

All these are illusions. Mostly because our only purpose seems to be to exist, and to exist as long as possible. The rest is something to farther that existence at a higher level. Purpose is walking into the world with a job to do, so maybe there is purpose, by your definition. But that purpose is simple. To exist.


This isn't my view, but it's fun to take this side. (Imagining myself as agent smith)

My view is secret for now though...

[Jack]

All these are illusions. Mostly because our only purpose seems to be to exist

They aren't illusions as they have ramifications in the physical world. They're more like "add-ons" to the basic view of existence. Living aware of only the most basic need to survive would be difficult if not impossible to carry off for 50+ years. At some point simple survival fails to add any value to life. A life of no value is truly pointless, since even survival has an end point.

I have beliefs that go beyond your question, attitudes that ultimately make "a life of value" meaningless. But as long as we're discussing conventional, individualistic lives, I do think we need to feel that our lives have some value to someone, even if it's just ourselves. Just surviving provides only so much value.

[Winter wind]

See, my belief is that survival isn't the main focus of humanity, but discovery. Curiosity is a more powerful motivator then any survival instinct humanity has.

Aaron Sorkin, my favorite screen writer, once wrote: "'Cause we came out of the cave and we looked over the hill and we saw fire. And we crossed the ocean and we pioneered the West and we took to the sky. The history of man is hung on a timeline of exploration..."

Our purpose is to learn and teach others to learn. The reason? Because it's what we (or maybe just me) live for. Since I'm Christian, I also think we have a duty to help others (I'm not saying Atheists don't, I'm just pointing out my motivation).

[Jack]

Do we yearn to discover for its own sake or to better survive? Couldn't a desire to survive drive our desire to explore and discover?

[Winter wind]

Quote by: isherwood Do we yearn to discover for its own sake or to better survive? Couldn't a desire to survive drive our desire to explore and discover?

I would rather die then be alive, but unable to gain information in any form. Be unable learn anything.

I survive just to learn. If I'm dead, I at least don't feel upset about not being able to learn.

But you are right, discovery is the reason why we have been able to survive, and I don't think that is an accident. I just think that the reason we have survived and evolved so much is simply because discovery has been at the forefront of what we do.

[Compugasm]

Ha, Agent Smiths Humans are a Virus argument, dubbed over with Carl Sagan. I never noticed it until now, but Smith has the same manner of speaking. That was funny.

[Jack]

discovery has been at the forefront of what we do

Curiosity may have killed the cat but it hasn't been all that bad for humans.

[rez]

Quote by: Winter wind See, my belief is that survival isn't the main focus of humanity, but discovery. Curiosity is a more powerful motivator then any survival instinct humanity has. Aaron Sorkin, my favorite screen writer, once wrote: "'Cause we came out of the cave and we looked over the hill and we saw fire. And we crossed the ocean and we pioneered the West and we took to the sky. The history of man is hung on a timeline of exploration..." Our purpose is to learn and teach others to learn. The reason? Because it's what we (or maybe just me) live for. Since I'm Christian, I also think we have a duty to help others (I'm not saying Atheists don't, I'm just pointing out my motivation).

Take a step back and realize your own personal desires have nothing to do with the reality you live in. You create your own purpose in life and I create my own purpose in life. The universe could care less how much you discover about it.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: rez Take a step back and realize your own personal desires have nothing to do with the reality you live in. You create your own purpose in life and I create my own purpose in life. The universe could care less how much you discover about it.

Purpose isn't the reason why the universe created us, it's the reason we continue to exist.

Quote by: comp Ha, Agent Smiths Humans are a Virus argument, dubbed over with Carl Sagan. I never noticed it until now, but Smith has the same manner of speaking. That was funny.

That is the most insane thing ever. But he really does sound like Smith.

[Century 25]

Quote by: Winter wind "I really should thank you for it, after all, it was your life that taught me the purpose of all life. The purpose of life is to end." Is he right? Is life really pointless (meant more for Atheists, because I can already guess what Theists will say)?

From this atheists perspective.. life is an event. No purpose. But.. that doesn't mean you cannot enjoy your life..! In fact, I would say atheists have a great advantage over the ones jumping through the hoops & waiting for their "reward" in some vague "heaven" - that always sounds so boring.. I'm never bored, but it seems the "believers" must be quite ready to chuck it all in order to.. "get a life" ??

[linda_mary_13]

Life is school. One shot to get it. Death is experiencing the reality of the knowledge you've gained.

[linda_mary_13]

Are you atheists aware that in the early part of 2012 the Earth will be exactly aligned with the center of the universe. I just learned this myself on the history channel. The ancient Mayans also identify this as their entire claim to fame was their calandar.Could there be a corollary with this event and the Bible?

[Jack]

Could there be a corollary with this event and the Bible?

I seriously doubt it, but if you'd like to make a case for it (in another thread, since it would be off-topic in this one) I'd be willing to read it.