The Jews: Wealthy, Powerful, Islamic Terrorism & Messiah!

[freedom13]

The Jews with their wealth and power, do they really need a Messiah?

Why don"t Jews believe in Jesus? Jews for Jesus?

Why are the Jews Fighting to save America and Israel from Islamic terrorism? Jewish Task Force (JTF.ORG): The Bizarre History Of The Black Muslims

The Jews are indeed a very “wealthy and powerful” group of people.

Rise Of US Jewish Power - 'Nothing Short Of Astounding' From Israel Shamir 10-17 -7 Rise Of US Jewish Power - 'Nothing Short Of Astounding' Some news items should be read in conjunction: otherwise, they make little sense. Recently, we were informed by Vanity Fair, that Jewish element with the US elites crossed 50%. Five years ago, it was assessed at 30%, now we are up to more than half. In the artcle below, a Jewish editor feels happy about this achievement. But how non-Jewish Americans should view it? Why should they care? And here we offer you a second news item, saying that social disparity gap in the US reached new heights. This is the answer: the more Jewish power at the top, more social disparity at the bottom. In short, when it is good for Jews, it is rarely good for anybody else. Read these two articles in conjunction: Rise Of US Jewish Power - 'Nothing Short Of Astounding'

For 2,000 years, Jews have rejected the Christian idea of Jesus as messiah. Why? Why Don't Jews Believe In Jesus | The difference between Judaism and Christianity It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus. The purpose is not to disparage other religions, but rather to clarify the Jewish position. The more data that's available, the better-informed choices people can make about their spiritual path. JEWS DO NOT ACCEPT JESUS AS THE MESSIAH BECAUSE: 1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES (back) What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will: A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28). B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6). C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4) D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9). The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies. Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists. 2) JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH (back) A. MESSIAH AS PROPHET Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets -- Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi. Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended. B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (1) nor will he possess supernatural qualities. The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David! (2) SEE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S RESPONSE TO THIS QUESTION C. TORAH OBSERVANCE The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4) Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37) For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"

Why Don't Jews Believe In Jesus | The difference between Judaism and Christianity

[Nemiroff]

so what are we debating here? are you anti jews or defending them? your title seems to be anti, but your post defends them, i am very confused

[freedom13]

Quote by: Nemiroff so what are we debating here? are you anti jews or defending them? your title seems to be anti, but your post defends them, i am very confused

The Jews with their wealth and power, do they really need a Messiah?

Why don't Jews believe in Jesus? Jews for Jesus?

Is justify for the Jews on that website to say they are fighting to save America and Israel from Islamic terrorism? Meaning: Black Muslim movement in America like the nation of Islam and others?
Jewish Task Force (JTF.ORG): The Bizarre History Of The Black Muslims

This debate is about whether or not you agree or disagree with the source of information about the Jews being wealthy, powerful and the Messiah and their argument against African American and Muslim movement.

[Nemiroff]

What does wealth have to do with spiritual saving?

Besides saying all Jew saying all Jews are wealthy is like saying all Asians are black belts, a lot are, a lot more aren't. And even if they are why are people being haters, everyone wants to make money, if the tables were turned, would you be whining that you and your people have too much money?

The Jews have always stressed education, while the church burned books, even if that is changed now, the buildup of inheritance that some Jewish families may have been building since the middle ages, if it wasn't confiscated by some country, is the fault of noone but the Christian church.

Why should the Jews believe in Jesus? Do you believe in the Buddha? A lot of people do! If anything, the church of Christ has brought more suffering to the world then any other faith.

[freedom13]

What does wealth have to do with spiritual saving?

Are you saying the Jews need a spiritual savior and their wealth has nothing to do with it?

Spiritual saving! Does that mean saving the spiritual poor.

Besides saying all Jew saying all Jews are wealthy is like saying all Asians are black belts, a lot are, a lot more aren't. And even if they are why are people being haters, everyone wants to make money, if the tables were turned, would you be whining that you and your people have too much money?

I didn’t say all Jewish people are wealthy, and I am not implying that all Asians, black or white and others have the same standard of living. Some are rich or wealthy and some are poor or common within all groups.

The Jews have always stressed education, while the church burned books, even if that is changed now, the buildup of inheritance that some Jewish families may have been building since the middle ages, if it wasn't confiscated by some country, is the fault of noone but the Christian church.

Are they funding education for the poor Americans other than the common Jewish people?

Why should the Jews believe in Jesus? Do you believe in the Buddha? A lot of people do! If anything, the church of Christ has brought more suffering to the world then any other faith.

This debate has nothing to do with Buddhism.

This debate is about what I previous stated, the Jews being wealthy, in a powerful position. Why do they in need of a Messiah?

Is the Jews justify for saying they are fighting to save America and Israel from Islamic terrorism? Meaning: Black Muslim movement in America like the nation of Islam and others.
Jewish Task Force (JTF.ORG): The Bizarre History Of The Black Muslims

[Nemiroff]

This debate is about what I previous stated, the Jews being wealthy, in a powerful position. Why do they in need of a Messiah?

so what does that have anything to do with jesus? i was wondering why jewish people have to believe in jesus so much that it amazes you that they dont.

Are you saying the Jews need a spiritual savior and their wealth has nothing to do with it? Spiritual saving! Does that mean saving the spiritual poor.

i'm quite confused by what your saying here, but money usually doesn't travel with you to heaven or hell or wherever you may end up after you die, once again, what does wealth have to do with spiritual saving and the coming of the messiah?

[freedom13]

'm quite confused by what your saying here, but money usually doesn't travel with you to heaven or hell or wherever you may end up after you die, once again, what does wealth have to do with spiritual saving and the coming of the messiah?

Are you talking about Heaven and Hell on earth or Heaven and Hell in a fantasy world?

so what does that have anything to do with jesus? i was wondering why jewish people have to believe in jesus so much that it amazes you that they dont.

They don't believe in Jesus, but they looking for a messiah. Right?

[Nemiroff]

'm quite confused by what your saying here, but money usually doesn't travel with you to heaven or hell or wherever you may end up after you die, once again, what does wealth have to do with spiritual saving and the coming of the messiah? Are you talking about Heaven and Hell on earth or Heaven and Hell in a fantasy world?

i'm talking about the heaven and hell religion talks about. and once again what does money have anything to do with that?

They don't believe in Jesus, but they looking for a messiah. Right?

yeah, jesus obviously isn't the messiah, he didn't bring world peace, in fact his religion only brought more war. back then many people claimed to be prophets and messiahs, just like the crazy doomsayers of times square.

[freedom13]

i'm talking about the heaven and hell religion talks about. and once again what does money have anything to do with that?

Well, Jesus stated that kingdom of God is within you...

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

what does money have anything to do with that?

Maybe you should ask Jesus about the rich and wealthy.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

yeah, jesus obviously isn't the messiah, he didn't bring world peace, in fact his religion only brought more war. back then many people claimed to be prophets and messiahs, just like the crazy doomsayers of times square.

If the coming of the son of man is not Jesus Christ, and then who is the messiah?

[Jack]

If the coming of the son of man is not Jesus Christ, and then who is the messiah?

As Nemiroff suggested, Jews do not believe Jesus was the son of god a.k..a. the messiah. Since they're still waiting for one to show up, that tells me they don't know who their messiah is.

[freedom13]

Quote by: Isherwood As Nemiroff suggested, Jews do not believe Jesus was the son of god a.k..a. the messiah. Since they're still waiting for one to show up, that tells me they don't know who their messiah is.

Are you saying that the Jews coming messiah is the son of man, but Jesus Christ isn't?

[Derach]

Quote by: freedom13 Are you saying that the Jews coming messiah is the son of man, but Jesus Christ isn't?

The Jews reject Jesus as the 'son of man' ... Christians await the 'second coming' ... Jews are still waiting for the first.

ps. I thought by the nature of Jesus' virgin birth ... he, by definition, is the son of no man. Yet Christians term him the 'son of man' ... oh well ... add it to the list of inconsistencies.

[freedom13]

Quote by: Derach The Jews reject Jesus as the 'son of man' ... Christians await the 'second coming' ... Jews are still waiting for the first. ps. I thought by the nature of Jesus' virgin birth ... he, by definition, is the son of no man. Yet Christians term him the 'son of man' ... oh well ... add it to the list of inconsistencies.

Firstly the story about Jesus birth is symbolic.
No, the inconsistencies are confused Christians misunderstanding!

Let me make the question a little simple.

Do the Jews believe there will be a physical human being that is a man or son of man coming as the messiah?

[Derach]

Quote by: freedom13 Firstly the story about Jesus birth is symbolic. No, the inconsistencies are confused Christians misunderstanding!

Ah, of course ... that part is symbolic ... is his death and resurrection symbolic too? I can see why there are 'confused Christians misunderstanding!' It's so convenient to be able to pick and choose the literal from the symbolic.

[freedom13]

Quote by: Derach Ah, of course ... that part is symbolic ... is his death and resurrection symbolic too? I can see why there are 'confused Christians misunderstanding!' It's so convenient to be able to pick and choose the literal from the symbolic.

The bible is referring to symbolic resurrection of Jesus.

Which ones are you claiming? Are you claiming the symbolic Jesus or the historical Jesus? Do you have the historical Jesus birth certificate?

Beside the Jesus drama, you haven’t answered my question about the Jews?

Do the Jews believe there will be a physical human being that is a man or son of man coming as the messiah?

[Jack]

In Jewish messianism and eschatology, the Messiah (Hebrew: משיח; Mashiah, Mashiach, or Moshiach, "anointed [one]") is a term traditionally referring to a future Jewish king from the Davidic line who will be "anointed" (the meaning of the Hebrew word משיח) with holy anointing oil and inducted to rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age. In the Hebrew Bible the word is also used to speak of priests and kings, who were traditionally anointed; the king of Persia, Cyrus the Great, is referred to as "God's anointed" (messiah) in the Bible. In Standard Hebrew, the messiah is often referred to as מלך המשיח, Méleḫ ha-Mašíaḥ (in the Tiberian vocalization pronounced Méleḵ hamMāšîªḥ), literally meaning "the Anointed King." Today, the various Jewish denominations have sharp disagreements about the nature of the Messiah and the Messianic Age, with some groups holding that the Messiah will be a person and other groups holding that the Messiah is a representation of the Messianic Age itself. Traditional thought and current Orthodox thought has mainly held that the Messiah will be an anointed one (messiah) descended from his father through the Davidic line of King David who will gather the Jews back in the Holy Land, the Land of Israel, and usher in an era of peace. Other denominations, such as Reform Judaism, perceive a Messianic Age when the world will be at peace but do not agree that there will be a messiah (king) as the leader of this era.

Jewish messianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The concept of the messiah seems to have developed in later Judaism. The Torah contains no specific reference to him, though some Jewish scholars have pointed out that it does speak of the "End of Days," which is the time of the messiah. The Tanakh gives several specifications as to who the messiah will be. He will be a descendent of King David (2 Samuel 7:12-13; Jeremiah 23:5), observant of Jewish law (Isaiah 11:2-5), a righteous judge (Jeremiah 33:15), and a great military leader. Jews do not believe that the messiah will be divine. A fundamental difference between Judaism and Christianity is the Jewish conviction that God is so essentially different from and beyond humanity that he could never become a human. Moreover, Jews find no foundation in the scriptures for such a belief about the messiah. Passages viewed by Christians as indicating a divine messiah (such as the suffering servant of Isaiah 53) are viewed by Jews as speaking of the people of Israel. In general, only the following passages are accepted as referring to the messiah: * Isaiah 2, 11, 42; 59:20 * Jeremiah 23, 30, 33; 48:47; 49:39 * Ezekiel 38:16 * Hosea 3:4-3:5 * Micah 4 * Zephaniah 3:9 * Zechariah 14:9 * Daniel 10:14

The Jewish Messiah - ReligionFacts

[freedom13]

Quote by: Isherwood Jewish messianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Jewish Messiah - ReligionFacts

Today, the various Jewish denominations have sharp disagreements about the nature of the Messiah and the Messianic Age, with some groups holding that the Messiah will be a person and other groups holding that the Messiah is a representation of the Messianic Age itself. Traditional thought and current Orthodox thought has mainly held that the Messiah will be an anointed one (messiah) descended from his father through the Davidic line of King David who will gather the Jews back in the Holy Land, the Land of Israel, and usher in an era of peace. Other denominations, such as Reform Judaism, perceive a Messianic Age when the world will be at peace but do not agree that there will be a messiah (king) as the leader of this era.

According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents, so in their view of the anointed one (messiah) may well as be a physical human being or son of man.

Also, the coming of this mighty one will be the sign of the Messianic Age.

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
9:7 - Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Isaiah 9:11 - But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

[Derach]

Quote by: freedom13 Beside the Jesus drama, you haven’t answered my question about the Jews? Do the Jews believe there will be a physical human being that is a man or son of man coming as the messiah?

looks like you answered yourself here:

Quote by: freedom13 According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents, so in their view of the anointed one (messiah) may well as be a physical human being or son of man. Also, the coming of this mighty one will be the sign of the Messianic Age.

I'm not Jewish so I don't know ... Personally I think it's all irrelevant hogwash from all sides and just a reason to be biased against someone. If the Jews believe something you see as absurd, you can justify your biggotry towards them. Same thing with Christians or Muslims. Find a difference, generalize a population based on it, make fun of it, then discriminate based on it. You've done #1, #2, and #3 (when you claimed Jews are so powerful they don't need a messiah) ... so you're probably well on your way towards justifying some prejudice.

[freedom13]

looks like you answered yourself here:

No, the answers were in the beginning of the threads accordingly to the Jewish sources.
My questions were whether you agree or disagree with those sources.

B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (1) nor will he possess supernatural qualities.

==============================================================================

I'm not Jewish so I don't know ... Personally I think it's all irrelevant hogwash from all sides and just a reason to be biased against someone. If the Jews believe something you see as absurd, you can justify your biggotry towards them. Same thing with Christians or Muslims. Find a difference, generalize a population based on it, make fun of it, then discriminate based on it. You've done #1, #2, and #3 (when you claimed Jews are so powerful they don't need a messiah) ... so you're probably well on your way towards justifying some prejudice.

There’s no bigotry on my behalf, maybe you are, because you haven’t respond to certain questions in the threads.

This debate is about what I previous stated: Do you agree or disagree with the source of information about the Jews being wealthy, powerful and the Messiah and their argument against African American and Muslim movement.

Anyway, here what they say about Black Muslims in America:

Jewish Task Force (JTF.ORG): The Bizarre History Of The Black Muslims The black Hitler Louis Farrakhan and his female bodyguards Bizarre costumes, outlandish doctrine, flagrant corruption, vicious racism and murderous violence are the "fruit of Islam" in black America

In 1913, the "Noble Prophet" Drew Ali formed the Moorish Science Temple of America. Ali preached hatred against all whites and urged blacks to embrace Islam. By 1929, Ali's movement had 36 Islamic "temples" and over 100,000 black followers. Preaching vicious hatred against whites in general, and Jews in particular, was as popular among blacks in those days as it is today.

Another example of black attraction to violent anti-white and anti-Semitic hatemongering came in 1914, when Marcus Garvey, a Jamaican immigrant, formed the Universal Negro Improvement Association (UNIA), a pro-Nazi black racist cult. In 1920, UNIA held a huge parade down Lenox Avenue in Harlem with 25,000 black marchers. By the 1930s, Garvey was praising Hitler and Mussolini for their anti-Americanism and their anti-Semitism.

In 1947, a black rapist, pimp and drug dealer named Malcolm Little learned about the Black Muslims while serving a prison sentence in the Michigan state penitentiary. Malcolm Little immediately joined the Islamic movement, changing his name to Malcolm X. In 1952, upon his release from prison, Malcolm X started preaching throughout the United States on behalf of the Black Muslims. The Muslim Koran refers to all non-Muslims as "devils," "dogs" and "pigs." Malcolm X quickly adopted that Islamic scriptural language by referring to all whites as "devils," "dogs" and "pigs."

[Derach]

yes, I believe there are biggotted, jackass jewish people ...

but I've personally met more bigotted jackass christians than jews or muslims.

I don't think all jews are wealthy or powerful.

I think some jews are awaiting a physical Messiah ... some are not ... some don't care.

Some (few) Jews believe in Jesus as the Messiah ... (symbollic and literal).