Communism?

[GSM:Xtreme]

Quote by: nerdvincent NO!!! Soviet Union, Cuba, China and stuff were marxist based.

Correction, that is communism. For the more soft-core Utopians like yourself the correct term is Socialism.

We can do a communist democracy as well as we can do a capitalist democracy, and we can do a capitalist dictatorship as well as we can do a communist dictatorship.

Lets elaborate? We cannot do a communistic democracy because of the one human flaw: greed. People will want the power, one thing leads to another and we have another revolution? war? take your pick.

I do think that a capitalistic dictatorship may be possible on paper, but what nation is going to want to trade with a dictator when the International viewpoint on them stands as it does today? It would simply drive the economy into the dirt, and then another country would come in and 'liberate' them. Hence, war.

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: GSM:Xtreme Correction, that is communism. For the more soft-core Utopians like yourself the correct term is Socialism.

Socialist and communist were both called socialists 100 years ago.
Then how would you call this: [about] equal salaries, collectivisation of the means of production blended with a direct democracy? Hard edged socialism? Soft ball communism? A new system maybe?
Socialism is a little too broad.

Quote by: GSM:Xtreme Lets elaborate? We cannot do a communistic democracy because of the one human flaw: greed. People will want the power, one thing leads to another and we have another revolution? war? take your pick.

People wants the power in a capitalist system too.

Quote by: GSM:Xtreme I do think that a capitalistic dictatorship may be possible on paper, but what nation is going to want to trade with a dictator when the International viewpoint on them stands as it does today?

2006 Fijian coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Put that in your pipe and smoke.

[GSM:Xtreme]

Quote by: nerdvincent Socialist and communist were both called socialists 100 years ago.

Yes, before the communists started carrying guns.

[about] equal salaries,

Nice to see that bit of capitalism wired into your brain.

collectivization of the means of production blended with a direct democracy? People want* the power in a capitalist system too.

People will want the power in any society, its just a matter of how far they are willing to take their fight.

2006 Fijian coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Put that in your pipe and smoke.

And what part should I be smoking exactly? So far i have read about two religious factions battling over, who knew, power.

Do not underestimate the power of the oppressor, and may you have luck trying to convince those oppressors to give up their riches and power.

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: GSM:Xtreme Yes, before the communists started carrying guns.

Ok let's stop playing with word You see what I mean.

Quote by: GSM:Xtreme Nice to see that bit of capitalism wired into your brain.

Eh, what do you want. Raised in Canada...

Quote by: GSM:Xtreme People will want the power in any society, its just a matter of how far they are willing to take their fight.

So, what was your point?

Quote by: GSM:Xtreme And what part should I be smoking exactly? So far i have read about two religious factions battling over, who knew, power. Do not underestimate the power of the oppressor, and may you have luck trying to convince those oppressors to give up their riches and power.

Damn Sorry, I'm bad with my english tonight. I translated something badly, I just understood what you meant. Gotta sleep before I say some more stupidities...

[GSM:Xtreme]

Quote by: nerdvincent Ok let's stop playing with word You see what I mean.

I suppose so. Touché on that point, sir.

Eh, what do you want. Raised in Canada...

Exactly! Trying to erase a capitalist's intertwined feelings of greed & want will be next to impossible. Do not think converting the US nor Canada to Communism would be as easy as it was for the Soviets. There are no surfs here, no slaves, livable conditions. The well off (those not living in boxes, and who support the current economic and political standings) outnumber those who are needy (the ones living in a box, that may, under extreme conditions, risk his/her life for a new government) by approximately 100:12. This is not colonial France, where one-eighth of the population controlled nine-eighths of the nation's wealth.

[nerdvincent]

Well it's a good question. Of course, communism is next to Nazism in public opinion, so a democratic victory of communism is close to impossible, as you said...but I ain't public opinion, right.
The question of the consequences of an hypotetic communist Canada is interesting. The economy of Canada is healthy, industries are modern one, natural ressources are good and the overall living conditions are wonderful. 1917 Russia was starving to death, it didn't have an economy strong enough for that change. After Stalin, it remained a semi-dictatorship prohibiting any change. I ain't an economist, but it would be an interesting experience. Cuba ain't poorer than Ethiopia, right?

[GSM:Xtreme]

Quote by: nerdvincent Well it's a good question. Of course, communism is next to Nazism in public opinion, so a democratic victory of communism is close to impossible, as you said...but I ain't public opinion, right.

Public opinion is mediated by the media. And so you suggest a secret-brutal-overzealous police/military force such as one seen in the movie The Children of Men. It is depressing but i fear very possible. But thats another topic.

[nerdvincent]

Of course not! Marxist are revolutionaries, I'm for democracy.

[sevendogs]

Yes, this is correct. We have to be like ants or honeybees to make communism possible. This is a utopia anyway. However, two things would be good: free standard education accessible to all and free basic medical assistance. This would a fair policy in any society. Every boy or girl would grow up educated and healthy to compete on their won as adults. This is what we will probably have in our country in the future.

[MotherConfessor]

My main qualm with communism is that, in essence, it is about the "collective group" and the "greater good". I am of the belief that my life is my own and I will never live it for the sake another person nor ever expect another person to live theirs for the sake of my own. (When I say "my own life" that includes my loved ones)

Someone said in an earlier post which I thought summed it up wonderfully, "You cannot have another person think or live for you."

It just destroys the rights of the individual.

[Dunfunkin']

Quote by: nerdvincent Well it's a good question. Of course, communism is next to Nazism in public opinion, so a democratic victory of communism is close to impossible, as you said...but I ain't public opinion, right. The question of the consequences of an hypotetic communist Canada is interesting. The economy of Canada is healthy, industries are modern one, natural ressources are good and the overall living conditions are wonderful. 1917 Russia was starving to death, it didn't have an economy strong enough for that change. After Stalin, it remained a semi-dictatorship prohibiting any change. I ain't an economist, but it would be an interesting experience. Cuba ain't poorer than Ethiopia, right?

Et voilà! The forces of communism/socialism (whatever you want to call them) are motivated by a need for change. On the face of it Russia in 1917, swarming with a downtrodden & oppressed proletariat, was ripe for revolution (and let's not forget that the German government laid on a special 'sealed train' train to get Lenin from Switzerland to Petrograd because they were well aware of the turmoil his presence would foment). Alas for Lenin & his comrades, the populace did not rise and subscribe to the New Order in the way Marx had predicted. Even assuming that the likes of Lenin, Trosky & Stalin had not been driven by ambition rather than altruism, it was all downhill from there on. 1917 Russia provides us with a very practical example of why communism is doomed to fail.

The people of Canada in 2008, by contrast, are neither downtrodden nor oppressed. The majority probably feel no need for fundamental change, hence it is inconceivable that communism could gain a foothold. This is another good practical example of why communism is doomed to fail.