Jesus Camp on A&E TV

[Compugasm]

Quote by: Chancellor It's a different kind of warfare, a "spiritual" warfare.

Bullcrap. Since when do spiritual warriors need weapons and camoflage? Did Ghandi have weapons? What weapons did Jesus have?

[Jack]

What weapons did Jesus have?

Jesus was a wimp. No doubt Fred Phelps would have protested at his funeral. Modern Christians need weapons to defend themselves against the persecution that has limited them to being a paltry ~80% of the U.S. population.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Right, so just observe John Hagee, or some of the other extremist pro-Zionist messages circulating now, and I think we can conclude that Christianity has the potential to be used as an psychological weapon.

What doesn't have the potential. The key is as you said "potential"

People can kill others over almost anything, it does not have to be christian or other religious values. Even in a fantasy secular america citizens of semi independent states can kill others in economic warfare, domestic disputes, or nationalistic attitudes over the superiority of your state.

The key being religion doesn't breed harm, people breed harm, with or without religion.

[Jack]

The key being religion doesn't breed harm, people breed harm, with or without religion.

People commit harmful acts, but quite often their motivation is religious. Religion is a breeding ground for intolerance, prejudice, bigotry and violence in the name of a god. People act out what religion motivates.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Compugasm Bullcrap. Since when do spiritual warriors need weapons and camoflage? Did Ghandi have weapons? What weapons did Jesus have?

Where did the kids in the DVD have weapons and camouflage?

[Chancellor]

Quote by: nerdvincent Actually there was a kind of military dansing in the begining of the movie, with kids wearing camo clothes and stuff, yelling for the return of thy savior.

But considering that kids wearing camouflage is still very much in style for kids in the represented age group, the fact that some of these kids just happened to be wearing camouflage is really irrelevant.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Isherwood People commit harmful acts, but quite often their motivation is religious. Religion is a breeding ground for intolerance, prejudice, bigotry and violence in the name of a god. People act out what religion motivates.

Is it the only motivation?

Do you have an data on if most harmful acts are religiously motivated?

And the key still is religious extremism causes harm. There exist many segments of religions that do not preach violence and hate. People choose to spread a message in their own way which can lead to harm. It's still people who preach the hatred.

[Jack]

Is it the only motivation?

How high shall we set the bar? Does religion have to be absolutely proven to motivate each and every murderer, despot and generally nasty person in the world before anyone will admit that religious belief fosters judgmental, bigoted and prejudicial behavior on the part of those who buy into it?

If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem, and religion isn't part of the solution.

[phoenix_fire]

Nothing is absolutely "part of the solution", as has been said. Democracy has been one of the great motivators of murder, and yet would you throw it out entirely? Why Ish: I didn't know you ascribed to anarchy.

[Jack]

I didn't know you ascribed to anarchy.

I used to, and if the U.S. becomes a theocracy, I will again.
I'm not sure how democracy motivates murder, but that's not a very relevant absolution for religion.

[phoenix_fire]

I never said it was. You know I hate when people think two wrongs should make a right. But my point was that anything, no matter how intrinsically benevolent, can be twisted to become "part of the problem". I suppose we all need our daily dose of Prozium.

[Compugasm]

Quote by: Chancellor .. the fact that some of these kids just happened to be wearing camouflage is really irrelevant.

And they happend to be waving weapons around, as warriors in training. Coincidence obviously. Whatever Chancellor. I think you're just trying to get me riled up.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Isherwood How high shall we set the bar? Does religion have to be absolutely proven to motivate each and every murderer, despot and generally nasty person in the world before anyone will admit that religious belief fosters judgmental, bigoted and prejudicial behavior on the part of those who buy into it? If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem, and religion isn't part of the solution.

Then what is the problem? Is it the mindset of people and people who choose to abuse the minds of others or is it the religion itself?

Without religion would the same abusers of the mind turn their attention to other media or would their threat be eliminated?

Well we don't know and I doubt we could even debate about it since it would be based of nothing more than idle speculation.

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: Chancellor But considering that kids wearing camouflage is still very much in style for kids in the represented age group, the fact that some of these kids just happened to be wearing camouflage is really irrelevant.

And what about 10 kids wearing camo clothes and camo facial make-up, weaving weapons while singing and dancing for Jesus? Did you really saw the movie?

[Jack]

Without religion would the same abusers of the mind turn their attention to other media or would their threat be eliminated? Well we don't know and I doubt we could even debate about it since it would be based of nothing more than idle speculation.

Not necessarily. We can examine Scandinavian countries where religion isn't in the majority like it is here and compare those societies to ours. Do Sweden and Norway have a less homogeneous society, is there greater crime, is there more social unrest, are the citizens less content?

[phoenix_fire]

Not really. There are a lot of other differences there to take into account. For example, the ability to better support and utilize social programs; their luck in escaping most martial involvement; population difference and density; etc.

[rez]

The director of the camp specifically compared Jesus Camp and those kids to all the kids in the Middle East. She said she wanted them to be taught like the kids over in Afghanistan, Pakastain, and Iran. She wanted those kids to lay down their lives just like the kids in the Middle East. She also stated that Christianity is the religion that contains the truth. No other religion contains the truth, but Christianity. When you have two major world religions claiming truth and training their kids to die for their beliefs, we have what we call a conflict.

[nerdvincent]

I know, but some people here try to find an mild interpretation to this. In vain.

[phoenix_fire]

Dying for one's beliefs does not equate to killing for one's beliefs.

[nerdvincent]

See?