Jesus Camp on A&E TV

[Matt W]

As shown in my links, PF, some Christians are terrorists. Stereotyping of any group is ridiculous, IMHO, either as completely innocent or guilty.

[phoenix_fire]

True, but I did ask that such behavior be directly linked to the instance in question. I have not had time to fully look into that information, so for now, I am abstaining from comment.

[Matt W]

You asked for the Christian Hamas, I gave you the Christian Hezbollah. Close enough.

As for Nigeria....well. Let's not go there.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Milton Bradley As with all societal norms, if the center gets pushed to one side, then the extreme will seem less extreme. One, or two generations of people raised on these ideas will give rise to even more extremist generations who will follow. It's the nature of the beast.

What about the Amish? They are pretty fundamental and extreme by our standards.

Actually with religion it becomes a choice at some point. It did for me. I went through the motions, but didn't believe in it. I did get some kindness out of it, but it was the other kids that did it not the nuns. I believe everybody, even at a fairly young age, but let's say around age 7 or 8, starts to question all the hocus-pocus. Kinda like most kids start to not believe in Santa around that age. True some people don't shrug religion off, but a whole bunch do. We come of age. Plus, most of these Jesus Camp kids will end up super rebellious, or leave the house as soon as possible. A lot of things correct themselves, and of course for a few it won't, and they'll be miserable or psychos, but they may have been that way anyway, a lot is in the genes.

[Jubloz]

pf, when we are discussing Christian acts of terrorism, are we only speaking of recent history or terrorist acts since the birth of Christ? Matt already beat me to some of the examples, but another one would be the fairly recent urban war between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, where terrorist groups were bombing civilians and destroying infrastructures. Actually, until year 2000, the IRA was labeled as a terrorist organization. If you want more information on this, type "North Ireland conflict" into Google.

This likening of Christians to terrorists is ridiculously offensive to me.

I think you're misunderstanding, or I've managed to overlook where that was said. I think most of the people in this thread agree that religion can be used as a launch pad for terrorist activity, and that the level of fundamentalism seen in Jesus Camp is like handing a kid a grenade and hoping he won't find the pin, but I don't think anyone here is insinuating that Christians, as a whole, are terrorist like. Rather, I think that most would agree that it's a minority that are threatening on this level, but denying that for the sake of it being taboo to question something religious only works to protect the problem.

Much the same, it would be immensely idiotic to stereotype all Muslims as terrorists, or even suggest that all Muslims are capable of terrorism, but, as we've seen, there is a minority of Muslim religious fanatics that can raise hell for the majority of the world's people.

[Jubloz]

Quote by: Marilyn Monroe Plus, most of these Jesus Camp kids will end up super rebellious, or leave the house as soon as possible.

I think you're right. Unfortunately, when you brainwash children, a few are going to live up to the expectations of the group's leaders, and when the content is this implicative of justifying violence, that minority can become immensely dangerous.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: phoenix_fire And yet people here do not realize that they are preaching hate against a religion. It's so painfully obvious to those of us who don't do it. This likening of Christians to terrorists is ridiculously offensive to me. So offensive that, although I would tend to side against the Jesus Camp crowd (strongly), the offense keeps me focused elsewhere. Let me use an example from antiquity to help explain my anger: back in the day, people used to say that when a white person slept with a black person, it was as good as sleeping with an animal. They even tried to offer "proof" in the form of Social Darwinism. But black people are not animals and the kiddos in the video are not terrorists.

I wasn't "preaching hate", I was just arguing that Christianity does have the potential to breed radicals.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Marilyn Monroe What about the Amish? They are pretty fundamental and extreme by our standards. Actually with religion it becomes a choice at some point. It did for me. I went through the motions, but didn't believe in it. I did get some kindness out of it, but it was the other kids that did it not the nuns. I believe everybody, even at a fairly young age, but let's say around age 7 or 8, starts to question all the hocus-pocus. Kinda like most kids start to not believe in Santa around that age. True some people don't shrug religion off, but a whole bunch do. We come of age. Plus, most of these Jesus Camp kids will end up super rebellious, or leave the house as soon as possible. A lot of things correct themselves, and of course for a few it won't, and they'll be miserable or psychos, but they may have been that way anyway, a lot is in the genes.

I think my reply to phoenix_fire pretty much sums up how I would reply to you as well.


I'm not in attack mode, I was just pointing out that I believed she was overlooking the potential of faith based religion to disassociate people from reality.

[nerdvincent]

Who actually saw the movie? I just watched it. I wanted to throw up, twice.
The woman (can't remember her name) really said, herself, clearly and without pressure: we must train an army in the name of jesus, just like our enemies.

[Compugasm]

Quote by: nerdvincent The woman (can't remember her name) really said, herself, clearly and without pressure: we must train an army in the name of jesus, just like our enemies.

Yeah, I already pointed that out. I don't understand what warriors have no weapons or fighting skills of any kind. The demonstration they give is worse than a school play. Did you notice the crowd shot? A bunch of middle aged fat ladies sitting in folding chairs. They're training an army of defenseless cannon fodder. Where is the kung-fu or survival training?

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Milton Bradley As with all societal norms, if the center gets pushed to one side, then the extreme will seem less extreme. One, or two generations of people raised on these ideas will give rise to even more extremist generations who will follow. It's the nature of the beast.

Maybe so, but it hasn't happened to a great extent yet. I just think religion is different, and no matter how much a person may be mouthing the words, their minds might be somewhere else.

Our country is too large, and diverse, plus we have so much information. I don't believe it would ever take hold because someone would make more sense somewhere else.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Compugasm Yeah, I already pointed that out. I don't understand what warriors have no weapons or fighting skills of any kind. The demonstration they give is worse than a school play. Did you notice the crowd shot? A bunch of middle aged fat ladies sitting in folding chairs. They're training an army of defenseless cannon fodder. Where is the kung-fu or survival training?

It's a different kind of warfare, a "spiritual" warfare.

[another day]

Quote by: Chancellor It's a different kind of warfare, a "spiritual" warfare.

Hmm no actually she spoke of training kids in combat saying "that's what they do "over there" (middle east), so we should do it too to be ready for them"

[phoenix_fire]

If that were true, I would think there would have been more guns and bomb belts in the video. One would think...right?

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Milton Bradley I wasn't "preaching hate", I was just arguing that Christianity does have the potential to breed radicals.

So does democracy. So does environmentalism. So does nationalism. So does watching a few too many X-Files episodes. Practically any country or creed has radicals. The important factor is degree.

[Halofan48]

not necessarily. There are many ways to learn something, what their doing is teaching children that god wants them to fight the people "over there". They just did so in a different way. Yes many things have radicals, but the degree does seem to increase in faith based radicalism.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: another day Hmm no actually she spoke of training kids in combat saying "that's what they do "over there" (middle east), so we should do it too to be ready for them"

But it's interesting that there was no actual training in physical combat (either hand-to-hand or military) going on in the DVD. The war being fought here in America by people like these is a very different kind of war that doesn't involve guns or missiles or other weapons of modern warfare.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Halofan48 not necessarily. There are many ways to learn something, what their doing is teaching children that god wants them to fight the people "over there". They just did so in a different way. Yes many things have radicals, but the degree does seem to increase in faith based radicalism.

Muslim perhaps. But you have failed to demonstrate this both across the board for all faiths, and in particular to the one in question. If you were a Loyalist, you would have seen the American Revolution as nothing short of democracy-based terrorism. And I'm sure that Communists felt the same way during the Cold War era as "protectors of Democracy" tried to "keep the world safe for Democracy" at the Communists' expense. "The tree of Liberty must needs, from time to time, to be watered with the blood of patriots"? "Give me liberty or give me death"? Sound familiar?

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: phoenix_fire So does democracy. So does environmentalism. So does nationalism. So does watching a few too many X-Files episodes. Practically any country or creed has radicals. The important factor is degree.

Right, so just observe John Hagee, or some of the other extremist pro-Zionist messages circulating now, and I think we can conclude that Christianity has the potential to be used as an psychological weapon.

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: Chancellor But it's interesting that there was no actual training in physical combat (either hand-to-hand or military) going on in the DVD. The war being fought here in America by people like these is a very different kind of war that doesn't involve guns or missiles or other weapons of modern warfare.

Actually there was a kind of military dansing in the begining of the movie, with kids wearing camo clothes and stuff, yelling for the return of thy savior.