Jesus Camp on A&E TV

[ShadowFox]

well, lets get this thread back on topic please

[Fangrim]

Jesus Camp is no different than any indoctrination kids face, whether from parents or schools.

The only reason you guys don't like it is because of its religious messages.

[Maryjane]

The only reason you guys don't like it is because of its religous messages

You know what Fangrim?

You are right. I walked away from this thread for the same reason I disliked the movie. The Christian Message.
These so called christians are hell bent on starting wars. I tried to be tolerant and then one of them tells me I need a shrink.
My son is not going to be brainwashed into believing he's any better than anyone else, nor will I tell him to force his opinions on other people. He won't be intimidated into seeking acceptance and love. Nor will he be told that human nature is sin.

[phoenix_fire]

Ya know what? All of this is indicative of the overreaction that the anti-theists have toward Christianity. You compare Jesus Camp to Al Qaeda camp, but (annoying as some of the counselors are) I don't see them putting AK's in kids' hands or bomb belts around their waists and walking them through checkpoints. You talk about Christians starting wars, but what wars are Christians starting? Has the Catholic church issued a fatwa that I somehow missed? Is the little Methodist church down the street making plans to invade Canada? I don't think so.

Come on people. Let's cut out the ridiculous exaggeration, please.

[Milton Bradley]

The Neocons "Culture War" is little more than religious intolerance on a massive scale in my opinion. They're talking head, pundits are always blowing their cover when Bush himself is not slipping up in his public addresses.


Tune into to Fox News for a week, and count the flag wavings, and religious implications expressed in their Culture War segments.

[Jubloz]

What frightens me is that adults running camps like these aren't locked up for terrorist activities. Because their Christians. If evidence were provided displaying an American Muslim group training young children to be "little soldiers for Muhammad" and "willing to die for Muhammad", the Muslims running the meeting would be locked up, no questions asked. Gotta hate religious hypocrisy.

[Jubloz]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Ya know what? All of this is indicative of the overreaction that the anti-theists have toward Christianity. You compare Jesus Camp to Al Qaeda camp, but (annoying as some of the counselors are) I don't see them putting AK's in kids' hands or bomb belts around their waists and walking them through checkpoints. You talk about Christians starting wars, but what wars are Christians starting? Has the Catholic church issued a fatwa that I somehow missed? Is the little Methodist church down the street making plans to invade Canada? I don't think so. Come on people. Let's cut out the ridiculous exaggeration, please.

This is exactly what frightens me. Your average religious individual should be frightened by what occurred in the documentary Jesus Camp-- frightened that we're living next to people with this devout and blind level of fanaticism. Yet, for the most part, the religious moderate responds to the film with a, "So what?" perspective. It seems that, largely, this gets blown off as "just some cooky Christians", but questioning what they're doing is an "anti-theist waste of time". In this sense, religious liberals are fully supportive of the problem in that they're perpetuating the taboo of not questioning extremist faith, suggesting that not turning a blind eye is nothing more than intolerance. Unfortunately, this frame of thought allows for religious extremists (especially, within the US, Christians) to continue on their dangerous endeavor, which, at its core, is nothing less than a thirst for blood. If I witnessed a group of atheists indoctrinating little children into being willing to die for atheism (or any other group for that matter), I'd be equally as alarmed, and would be advocating the imprisonment of such a group's leadership with the same vigor.

Quote by: phoenix_fire You talk about Christians starting wars, but what wars are Christians starting?

Is... this a joke? Because it's really not funny.

[Jack]

For anyone interested, Sam Harris has a lot to say about the way that religious tolerance and religious moderates allow the religious extremists to exist in his book The End of Faith. He makes a good point that fanaticism exists because we have made it a social "sin" to criticize religion at all.

[Maryjane]

The only thing I worry about is if my son was to meet little a Levi ... do you think they could be friends? Would their parents allow it?

PF,
You want to pretend this stuff doesn't happen with non fundy christians? I'm here to tell you it does. Either you choose not to see it or you go along with it.

It's sad because my son does not understand it. It would be easier for me to raise him believing in gods in order for him to get along in this world. It goes against my principals the things those kids were being taught. Hate, intolerence, bigotry....

If you decide to have children, are you going to raise your kids that way?

[Compugasm]

Quote by: phoenix_fire You compare Jesus Camp to Al Qaeda camp, but (annoying as some of the counselors are) I don't see them putting AK's in kids' hands or bomb belts around their waists and walking them through checkpoints.

In the movie, a lady explains her reasoning for Jesus Camp is because of Muslim extremists and "...some internet websites". On this forum, we didn't have to make any jumps in comparison logic, because that lady compares her warriors in training, to the muslims in the first 20min of the movie. If I remember correct, the next scene after that, is kids chanting and waving sticks around in facepaint. If anything, it is this woman who is overreacting, not us.

[rez]

Quote by: Isherwood For anyone interested, Sam Harris has a lot to say about the way that religious tolerance and religious moderates allow the religious extremists to exist in his book The End of Faith. He makes a good point that fanaticism exists because we have made it a social "sin" to criticize religion at all.

It is not even that. I think people are naturally superstitious towards reality. It exists from Astrology, New Age followers, gamblers, paranormal believers, all the way to theism. People actually prefer to explain reality through supernatural means. Science is boring and complicated, so it gets thrown to the way side in favor of a good imagined creative story. They are gullible individuals. If something shakes out of nowhere, they will automatically try to give a supernatural explanation. Of course, it has to be a improbable event to occur, but so are the chances of winning the lottery and yet we have millions of people buying tickets.
Everybody is so wrapped up in their own little reality to care what these theists are trying to do.

[ShadowFox]

Ok, I don't remember anyone comparing Jesus Camp to Al Qaeda camps. Also, i'm a bit confused about what Milton was talking about when he said "culture war". I'm not going to watch Fox news though, it seems to mainly represent republican views. Lets not start discussing that though. What people who say Christians are starting wars mean is that some of the extremist Christians (yes, all religions have them and always have, just look at the flagellates from the 14th century. ) are using terrorist attacks to justify attacks into the Holy Land. Unfortunately, when people say these things, they are called "anti-theists" and are against Christians. This is not true for everyone. My best friends are a mix of Christians, Jews, Muslims, and atheists, and I have friends of every religion. I have nothing against Christians, heck my mom is a devout Christian, and I love her. When people send their children to these camps, they are just having their children brain washed into a certain way of thinking. Now lets look at past events. When cults like the one Jim Jones made back in the 70's try this they are usually considered to be crazy and terrible people. Yet when a mainstream religion does it, people don't care. Can you say Hypocrisy?

[phoenix_fire]

I can't believe you guys. We worry when the Muslims talk about training up their kids to be soldiers for Allah because when they say it, they mean literally: go blow someone up for your faith. We see it happening over and over and over. We don't need to speculate on the possible end result because it's already happening. In Christianity, the war talk is metaphorical. We know this because little Christian children don't strap bomb belts on themselves and go blow up infidels.

Cripes. Does anyone here have common sense enough to see past their own hatred?

*crickets*

Anyone at all?

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: phoenix_fire I can't believe you guys. We worry when the Muslims talk about training up their kids to be soldiers for Allah because when they say it, they mean literally: go blow someone up for your faith. We see it happening over and over and over. We don't need to speculate on the possible end result because it's already happening. In Christianity, the war talk is metaphorical. We know this because little Christian children don't strap bomb belts on themselves and go blow up infidels. Cripes. Does anyone here have common sense enough to see past their own hatred? *crickets* Anyone at all?

It's only "metaphorical" until it's put into practice. Like when junior joins the military, for example.


Besides, with the trend towards religious intolleranece, and the momentum that that movement has, I'd say now was precisely the time to attempt to step in with some common sense.


P.S. I don't hate religion, I hate "organized" religion.


I'll agree that individual Christians are less volatile that individual Muslims, but as an organized force, Christians are every bit as scary to the non-indoctrinated.

[Compugasm]

Quote by: phoenix_fire In Christianity, the war talk is metaphorical.

Just like the metaphorical Jonestown.

[Maryjane]

I don't see them putting AK's in kids' hands or bomb belts around their waists and walking them through checkpoints.

I saw them line up the kids (as young as 4?) put plastic fetus's in their hands, then slap tape over their mouths in a effort to brain wash them for their own political agenda.
Where do you think abortion clinic bombers come from? Who is murdering the doctors that work in these clinics?

[phoenix_fire]

So what? When you genuinely believe that abortion is wrong, should you not instill that in your children, as you would teach them not to steal or lie? Doing such a thing is not telling them to blow up abortion clinics. Or is this kind of thing only acceptable when it's something you agree with?

[Maryjane]

So what? When you genuinely believe that abortion is wrong, should you not instill that in your children, as you would teach them not to steal or lie? Doing such a thing is not telling them to blow up abortion clinics. Or is this kind of thing only acceptable when it's something you agree with?

Well PF, I guess I'd have to say I question your parenting skills if you believe shoving an plastic aborted fetus in a 4 year old's hand (when they have no idea what the hell an abortion is) is doing god's work. Nice to see the kid waving a rainbow flag though. Least they aren't picketing the gays.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: phoenix_fire I can't believe you guys. We worry when the Muslims talk about training up their kids to be soldiers for Allah because when they say it, they mean literally: go blow someone up for your faith. We see it happening over and over and over. We don't need to speculate on the possible end result because it's already happening. In Christianity, the war talk is metaphorical. We know this because little Christian children don't strap bomb belts on themselves and go blow up infidels. Cripes. Does anyone here have common sense enough to see past their own hatred? *crickets* Anyone at all?

I think you have a point. I think we need to address the fundies as something different than normal agnostics or light believers.

Its clear religion does cause fundamentalism. Because WOAH DUH!! fundamentalist religions wouldn't exist without religion. But I don't believe the answer if the attack the normal masses in general and claim they are all responsible for this.

[Jack]

However, there is a legitimate argument to be made that by practicing tolerance for religion generally, we enable fanaticism.

Can we say voodoo is acceptable yet object when chickens are sacrificed?

Fanatics abuse our tolerance of their less fanatical brethren. They are what create an atmosphere in which tolerance is unproductive.