Jesus Camp on A&E TV

[loser]

My favorite part was when the very obese woman preacher was talking about "fat and lazy people". The camera was trained on the audience of children and more than a few rolled their eyes or had smirks on their face. Even the mikes picked up quiet laughs and chuckles.

Priceless!

That show was scary. I've never seen so many fat, ugly kids and adults who sputter around in old Bronco's like their proud of their lack of any taste and style.

It was, for the most part, fat and ugly adults...most of the children that I saw were rather cute and not so fat.

And hey, Broncos are probably more at home in North Dakota than BMW's.

Very Radical. Not all Christians are like this. Speaking in tongues is not biblical anymore. This show was just way over the top and pretty silly

Actually, the goal of the directors was to shock their audience with the creepy antics of these quasi-Christians. Very effective.

A strong message of how even a "religion" which most people don't consider a "cult", is actually exactly the same as any cult, only more widespread and accepted.

If you stereotype people, you falsely judge a majority by the antics of a minority. Do you judge all Bush's by the same standard as one called George? If you do, you are wrong.

Okaaaaay I guess I have to ask the obvious question. Why?

Okay, you got me. I kinda just threw this out there to elicit some strong responses. I don't necessarily believe that...in fact, I'm not sure that I believe it at all. I do have more respect for honesty and very little for deceivers and liars...though I can tolerate it when it's tongue in cheek or just to be amusing. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to tolerate myself.

Kudos, iclaudius, that was good.

[Maryjane]

Okay, you got me. I kinda just threw this out there to elicit some strong responses. I don't necessarily believe that...in fact, I'm not sure that I believe it at all. I do have more respect for honesty and very little for deceivers and liars...though I can tolerate it when it's tongue in cheek or just to be amusing. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to tolerate myself.

Now that you have had your "fun" please go play elsewhere.. Thx.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Maryjane Tonight A&E TV presents the movie Jesus Camp. I will ask my 10 year old to watch it with me. Watch Jesus Camp on A&E TV Jesus Camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is actually an old one. I have it on DVD. The anti-Christian spin on it is clear.

Wikipedia is not a valid source of information.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Isherwood A very disturbing documentary. It won't be long after it airs until we start hearing the claims that "these aren't real Christians". I was watching a documentary last night on the children fighters being recruited into armies in Africa and the Middle East. It was disgusting and saddening. Jesus Camp is no different. How can reasonable people not perceive this as child abuse?

Other than the clearly anti-Christian spin on this so-called "documentary," it was well worth watching. Is it too much to expect a documentary to be UNBIASED????? Just present the facts and stop trying to convince people to draw specific conclusions!

If any of what was presented in the so-called "documentary" was accurate, it's a clear example of what those involved in dominion theology and Christian Reconstructionism are doing and promoting.

[Sandy]

Why would anyone want to brainwash their own child with this terrorism?

[nerdvincent]

Because they've been brainwashed as well. What a question!

[rez]

Quote by: loser If you stereotype people, you falsely judge a majority by the antics of a minority. Do you judge all Bush's by the same standard as one called George? If you do, you are wrong.

And yet we have you and Chancellor denying evolution and global warming because Pat Robertson or your preacher told you to.

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: rez And yet we have you and Chancellor denying evolution and global warming because Pat Robertson or your preacher told you to.

Does disproving evolution prove creationism? No, it would just lead us to formulate another stronger theory. Enjoy science!

[Chancellor]

Quote by: rez And yet we have you and Chancellor denying evolution and global warming because Pat Robertson or your preacher told you to.

No one here denies that "evolution" (or, more accurately, "adaptation") occurs within a species. It's when you start extrapolating that into "evolution" from one species into an entirely different species that we start rejecting your stupid claims. As for global warming, no one here (that I know of) denies that the overall temperature of the planet may have risen about a degree in the last 100 years. What is disputed is the alleged cause of that temperature increase and whether or not it's something we should try to correct.

And, no, I don't reject these because someone else told me to - any more than you accept these because someone else told you to.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Sandy Why would anyone want to brainwash their own child with this terrorism?

Why would anyone want to let the government brainwash their children in government indoctrination centers (public schools)?

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: Chancellor Why would anyone want to let the government brainwash their children in government indoctrination centers (public schools)?

Because they've been brainwashed as well. What a question!

[Maryjane]

Wikipedia is not a valid source of information.

Perhaps you didn't BOTHER to scroll down to the external link section? For the second time, will you people go bother someone else and stop mucking up my thead!

Jesus Campjesuscampthemovie.com - official site for the film
Jesus Camp-ers - Levi's parents site for reaction to film.
Jesus Camp synopsis - from Magnolia Pictures
Magnolia (Pictures)
Loki Films - documentary film-maker's site
Force Theory - composers and Sound Designers of Jesus Camp
Kids in Ministry International (KIMI) - the sponsoring organization of the camp depicted in the film
Interview with Heidi and Rachel 04/16/07
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp"

[rez]

Quote by: Chancellor No one here denies that "evolution" (or, more accurately, "adaptation") occurs within a species. It's when you start extrapolating that into "evolution" from one species into an entirely different species that we start rejecting your stupid claims. As for global warming, no one here (that I know of) denies that the overall temperature of the planet may have risen about a degree in the last 100 years. What is disputed is the alleged cause of that temperature increase and whether or not it's something we should try to correct. And, no, I don't reject these because someone else told me to - any more than you accept these because someone else told you to.

Chancellor, you are obviously not educated enough in basic biology to know what you are talking about. If adaptation occurs within a species, then adaptation over a longer period of time would cause the species too look like a totally different species. It is rather simple, small changes over a long period of time results in larger changes. So since you accept microevolution, then you accept macroevolution.

You see Chancellor, the only people that told me things were the scientists who discovered genes and dna and how they work. It was the scientists who discovered how a cell reproduces that gave me a fundamental understanding of how living things work. When you take the observations of Darwin and the findings of molecular biology you can start to see how life on this planet works.

[iclaudius]

Quote by: Chancellor No one here denies that "evolution" (or, more accurately, "adaptation") occurs within a species. It's when you start extrapolating that into "evolution" from one species into an entirely different species that we start rejecting your stupid claims. As for global warming, no one here (that I know of) denies that the overall temperature of the planet may have risen about a degree in the last 100 years. What is disputed is the alleged cause of that temperature increase and whether or not it's something we should try to correct. And, no, I don't reject these because someone else told me to - any more than you accept these because someone else told you to.

I'm going to say the same thing to you that I said to loser:

We have lots of fossils to study. We see that apes get progressively more human-like as time goes on. Upright walk. Big brains. More "human" facial features. Increasingly similar bone density and makeup. The list goes on and on. What conclusion are we supposed to draw? That all these different models were created independently as time progressed, with increasing similarity to us, just for kicks? That they all bear increasing significant genetic similarity as time approaches the present just because God thought it was a cool idea? That we really just appeared in that succession, and yet, are not at all related to them, did not descend from them, and are furthermore expected to conclude this in spite of overwhelming contending evidence?

The points are on the graph and the line that connects them is obvious. The real question that should be asked is, if micro-evolution exists and happens on a regular basis (and it does), what is to stop macro-evolution from happening? Or perhaps an even better question is, what do you think happens when micro-evolution occurs continuously over a very long period of time? Over thousands of years? Over a hundred thousand? Over a million? Over a billion? Surely you wouldn't have us believe that all species would always stay basically the same, that nothing much would change, that humans would stay humans, that turtles would stay turtles, and that pandas would stay pandas?

Life has been on this planet for billions of years. Billions. As far as I know, no scientists has ever given us any reason to believe that the species distinctions are immutable and unchangeable rules of existence. If macro-evolution did not exist, and God created all the species individually, then all species would have had to remain in their respective species through billions of years of evolution. Yes, once again, billions of years. As I said before, to my knowledge, no scientists -- no anyone, actually -- has ever so much as proposed a mechanism that would ensure one species would never evolve into another species. I should not have to tell you that the thought is unfathomable. They would surely change at some point. 2 billion years of micro-evolution is a lot of change, and to say everything would stay basically the same is just silly.

In truth, the term "macro-evolution" itself is a farce. There is no reason to differentiate macro-evolution and micro-evolution. They are the same thing on different scopes. When you say that there "has not been one repeatable experiment validating macro evolution," it is my suspicion that you are doing it purely because you cannot deny that it occurs on a small level, and simply do not want to concede that it could happen on large level after a lot of small changes add up. The kind of proof you are looking for is in-demonstrable, anyway. All evolutionary data suggests that macro-evolution could occur, and there is none to suggest that it can't; the only thing left to show would be to demonstrate that it does occur, and that takes millions of years. We've only been recording history for a few thousand, and we only figured out what species were a couple hundred years ago. But even if we did, what would that change? You'd never accept it. It is clear to all of us who are reasonable what is true. For the record, I don't hope to convert you, I'm just concerned you might lead people off the correct path.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Maryjane Perhaps you didn't BOTHER to scroll down to the external link section? For the second time, will you people go bother someone else and stop mucking up my thead! Jesus Campjesuscampthemovie.com - official site for the film Jesus Camp-ers - Levi's parents site for reaction to film. Jesus Camp synopsis - from Magnolia Pictures Magnolia (Pictures) Loki Films - documentary film-maker's site Force Theory - composers and Sound Designers of Jesus Camp Kids in Ministry International (KIMI) - the sponsoring organization of the camp depicted in the film Interview with Heidi and Rachel 04/16/07 Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp"

The external links section just tells me that there are other sources to turn to (besides Wikipedia). I have the DVD. I've watched the DVD. I commented on the DVD in this thread. Here's what I said: "If any of what was presented in the so-called 'documentary' was accurate, it's a clear example of what those involved in dominion theology and Christian Reconstructionism are doing and promoting."

Now, how is making a comment about the content of the DVD mucking up your thread?

[Chancellor]

Quote by: rez Chancellor, you are obviously not educated enough in basic biology to know what you are talking about. If adaptation occurs within a species, then adaptation over a longer period of time would cause the species too look like a totally different species. It is rather simple, small changes over a long period of time results in larger changes. So since you accept microevolution, then you accept macroevolution.

Because there is clear evidence of microevolution. Macroevolution is an extrapolation, a conclusion that is being drawn, speculation.

You see Chancellor, the only people that told me things were the scientists who discovered genes and dna and how they work. It was the scientists who discovered how a cell reproduces that gave me a fundamental understanding of how living things work. When you take the observations of Darwin and the findings of molecular biology you can start to see how life on this planet works.

Science is based on a philosophy called naturalism and, as such, any conclusions it comes to will automatically be biased. Science is no more authoritative than religion.

[Maryjane]

I asked my son to watch Jesus Camp because I thought it would help him understand what the "YOU ARE NOW ENTERING THE MISSION FIELD!" sign in the vestibule in the local church meant.

Isn't it funny that an Atheist wasn't afraid to let their child to watch this film, meanwhile the kids in the movie weren't allowed to read Harry Potter or tell ghost stories? I admit, he could only take about 45 minutes before he asked if he could stop watching. The intimidation exhibited by the parents about sin resulting in the crying children got on his nerves. The little boy that broke down on stage bothered him the most. He kept commenting, he's crying again!

Even though they were around the same age and dressed similar, he observed those kids were different than he. Why would he think that? Maybe because they are told what to think and not allowed to question? Maybe it was their intolerance? He came to the conclusion they got spanked or punished if they went against what they were told. He was the one that said they look brainwashed, not me.

My son paid close attention to the discussion Levi and his mother had about evolution, science, and Galileo. My son goes to public school. His latest science project was a report on Copernicus and the heliocentric theory. Research taught him religion's negative influence on scientific discovery. Is that something a creative science book or his mother is going to teach? You will notice Levi didn't use a computer to research his homework, yet the leader of the camp used one to make bloody fonts.

Sad, parents believing that they have to control every influential aspect of a child's life and don't allow them to think for them selves or associate with children outside the church. I think what bothered me the most was the little girl parroting what she had believed the adults wanted to hear in order to gain acceptance. She was being taught conditional love. She and Levi romanticizing death at the end bothered me as well. They are way too young to understand there is nothing romantic about dying.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Maryjane Sad, parents believing that they have to control every influential aspect of a child's life and don't allow them to think for them selves or associate with children outside the church. I think what bothered me the most was the little girl parroting what she had believed the adults wanted to hear in order to gain acceptance. She was being taught conditional love. She and Levi romanticizing death at the end bothered me as well. They are way too young to understand there is nothing romantic about dying.

What's sad is government believing it needs to control every influential aspect of a child's life and that it needs to usurp the absolute sovereignty of parents with regard to how they raise their children.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Maryjane Tonight A&E TV presents the movie Jesus Camp. I will ask my 10 year old to watch it with me. Watch Jesus Camp on A&E TV Jesus Camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In conjunction with watching this so-called "documentary," the book discussed in the link below is well worth reading:

http://www.kingdomcoming.com/

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Chancellor Wikipedia is not a valid source of information.

How many times are you going to bring this up like its a scientific fact.

According to YOU wiki is not a valid source. YOU are not everyone.