Atheism, Mythology and God

[freedom13]

This augment is taking from another thread call “The logic behind atheism.”

Here is my statement from that thread:

First of all, the bible teaches metaphorically who God is, and not literally.
Therefore, the logic behind atheism argument about God is on a carnal level.

The response from my statement:

When atheists argue about god, we're usually doing so to illustrate that most theists are unaware of the attributes of the god they worship. We ask how one can worship a deity who is said to have hated his own creation, demanded the killing of innocent women and children and, if the source of everything, is the source of pain, sorrow and evil. But keep in mind we don't believe in this god or any gods. When it comes to our actual attitude toward theism, we aren't arguing against god, we're arguing about believing that mythology is a physical reality. I don't speak out against the fictional characters people have invented, I speak out against believing those characters are real. I stand against the evil that religions have fostered throughout history on both a social and individual level. My arguments are with people, an effort to make clear the lack of any good reason to believe in their gods. I try to get them to see that they are projecting their belief onto something even they can't offer any evidence to support.

Therefore, atheists may have a valid point, if they are willingly to explain the reason behind “theism” and why some people are misleads with the idea of believing that mythology is a physical reality?

[nerdvincent]

Well, as an example, can we call someone Christian if he believe in the philosophy and the way of living the Bible taught them, without believing that Genesis, Reincarnation and even the existence of Jesus was the reality? Well and why not.
Is the contrary possible too? I know many who claims to be christian, who believe blindly that biblical creationist is the only way but when somebody hit them...well they don't use the Jeez way.
This said, I don't ''believe'' in Bible in neither way.

[Nemiroff]

each person has his own sets of morals and can't agree with EVERY word in the bible. even devote catholics must confess, and all but (supposedly) the greatest of saints never thought a devious or insulting thought.

if you dont believe in the story, at least in a metaphorical way, and you dont believe that god trully exists, and jesus was his son, then i dont believe the status quo would consider you christian.
you would just be a morally conscious atheist who read the bible and believed in its teachings, as many are.

what you consider yourself is of course always up to you.

a quote i picked up along the years gave me insight into what religion should teach "believe in the ideal, not the idol"

[Technosoul]

Good - no rules for this debate.

Now once upon a time Jesus said (do not recall it word for word ) the following.

The sun shines on everyone the same, be they good people or bad people. The rain falls everyone the same, be they good or be they bad people. So be ye also as perfect as God is perfect.

Now that little verse is nearly pagan like when you think about it.

The sun and the rain as a god. hmm? Well, the sunlight and the rain do come from the heavenly sky.

The message is to treat everyone the same, no matter whom they are.

But one can discover more in that symbolism. The sun can be both good and evil, it is good because it makes crops grow, but then what about when it gets too hot, dry spells or global warming? And the rain can be a blessing to farmers, but it can also be distructive as a hurricane or a big flood. Good and evil, a flood can kill both the innocent and the guilty alike, children and adults. Due to rain. As it treats everyone the same. And yet, everyone gets the advantages of an abundant harvest if the spring rains are milder.

Did Eve find out that god is both good and evil via those symbolic apples? Being that God is represented by the weather, the "acts of God" as so called by insurance companies.

Does this mean that the sun and the rain hated the very creation that they helped to grow with it's water and sunlight, and so it brings froth a wrath in the form of an superstorm? I doubt it. Not if you worship in a scientific way. Of course a farmer will hope and pray for rain after he plants his crops, but if things do not work out good, is he going to blame the sun or the rain clouds? Would that not be a silly thing to do? As a farmers crops are not the only things to be concidered in the managment of earth. Perfection cannot be judged just relative to human desires.

This might seem off topic, but it is not really off topic.

[nerdvincent]

Well, it may not be off topic, but close too. Try to get closer to the topic, for we must not fall into a typical ''fundi vs atheist ''thread''.

[freedom13]

Here is a mythological question for this thread:

Which of the following stories are the original account?

The Egyptian God Horus, son of Osiris and Isis in comparison with the biblical story of Jesus, Virgin Marry and Joseph with The Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Trinity!

Also, Set or Seth included in comparison with the biblical personality of Satan.

http://www.egyptartsite.com/hormyth.html

[Zhavric]

Quote by: freedom13 Which of the following stories are the original account?

What does it matter? It's not like any of them have any prayer of being remotely true? Why do we, living in the age of the internet, still feel compelled to eat the intellectual offal of the bronze age?

[freedom13]

What does it matter? It's not like any of them have any prayer of being remotely true? Why do we, living in the age of the internet, still feel compelled to eat the intellectual offal of the bronze age?

I believe the question is why does it matter to Atheists?

[rez]

Quote by: freedom13 I believe the question is why does it matter to Atheists?

1.) Mature adults should not be so gullible and misinformed. If they are so easily persuaded with religion, what else are they easily hoaxed into?

2.) Inability to distinguish between ones own personal desires and the desires of their own imagination is another particular thing I have an issue with. God does not speak to you, you speak to yourself. God does not tell you how to be moral, you tell yourself how to be moral. Failure to realize this is unhealthy and should be further investigated by a doctor.

3.) Failure to recognize their own double standards is another extremely bad quality to have as well. Inability to understand their religion is no more real or has any more proof then some other religion is a major problem. It causes a theists arguments to be dishonest and misleading from the start. So if a theist does not value honesty, then they have a long way to go before becoming a helpful member in society. I can't really get a long with a hypocrite.

[athomps11687]

For those of you out there, who would like someone to come up evidence that there is a God, I turn to you and ask that you provide me with some evidence that there isn't a God. Also, I ask you if you believe that: it would be better to live a life not believing in God and then upon death find out there is a God, or live a life believing in God and then upon death find out there isn't a God?

[Nemiroff]

You want us to prove a negative? How about you prove to us unicorns don't exist.

The best you can do is say noone has found evidence or seen a unicorn therefore it doesn't exist. You just can't prove negatives.

Also would you rather live your whole life not believing in god to find out he exists?

Or live your whole life following arbitrary rules to find out you picked the wrong god out of countless possibilities, including the chance that there is a god but noone got it right yet, or that he doesn't even want to be worshiped, and all your annoying prayers are gonna be what sends you to hell.

[athomps11687]

Call me stupid, but I would rather believe in a God, and find out there isn't one. As far as arbitrary rules, those deal with religion, not the belief in God. I believe in God, but believe that religions were only created because people sink into chaos without a structured system.

As always, yes there is a chance that there could be some super god that trumps all others, but that is as far fetched as saying right now you or I aren't really living in reality one of us is in a coma and reliving our life. The only thing we can be certain of in life, is that there is nothing we can be certain of.

[Jack]

I turn to you and ask that you provide me with some evidence that there isn't a God.

What exactly is a god? Is there a single, universally accepted definition of a god that you want us to disprove? How do theists propose we go about disproving the existence of that which has never been proven to exist, or even consistently defined?

If I were to ask you to disprove the existence of greedals, what's the first question that would cross your mind?

I would rather believe in a God, and find out there isn't one.

But which god? Pick the wrong one and your belief is as useless as if you hadn't believed at all.

[athomps11687]

How am I, as a believer in God, supposed to go about being the first person to provide evidence to make you believe in God? Neither of us has the tangible evidence to make the other person believe in their viewpoint. There is no way to define what we can't prove with precise certainity. I just ask that you keep in your mind the possibility that there is a God, as I will keep it in my mind that there is always a chance that there is no God.

[Baconup]

Quote by: athomps11687 For those of you out there, who would like someone to come up evidence that there is a God, I turn to you and ask that you provide me with some evidence that there isn't a God. Also, I ask you if you believe that: it would be better to live a life not believing in God and then upon death find out there is a God, or live a life believing in God and then upon death find out there isn't a God?

The burden of proof isn't on me to prove he doesn't exist. If someone is trying to tell me something exists the burden of proof is on them. The last part of your post is a terrible argument based on fear. I'm not going to believe in something because I'm scared of what might be if I don't.

I am a good person and have spent a lot my life trying to make myslef a better human being. If that isn't enough to get me to your god's heaven then screw him I'll chill in hell.

[athomps11687]

I never said that atheists go directly to hell. I value that you have been a good person and believe that everyone has the possibilty of getting into heaven regardless of your beliefs. I wasn't trying to enstill fear into those that don't believe in God. I was just simply stating that for some believing in God is easier than not believing in God.

Also, you don't have to pick the "right" god necessarily get into heaven or hell. If we don't know otherwise, how are we supposed to believe in the right religion?

[Jack]

If we don't know otherwise, how are we supposed to believe in the right religion?

Exactly the quandary Christians should be concerned with, along with believers in all the other gods. How do you know? The more I think about it, the less I understand how any theists can believe they have the "right" belief system while all the others don't.

[Suburbanite]

Quote by: Isherwood Exactly the quandary Christians should be concerned with, along with believers in all the other gods. How do you know? The more I think about it, the less I understand how any theists can believe they have the "right" belief system while all the others don't.

Do you not feel the same about anyone with a belief system? Scientists, Communists, etc.

[Nemiroff]

scientists and communists believe in a set idea based upon principles, not supernatural beings. theres a difference between believeing in a way of living because you feel its right, and a way of living because something told you so.

I believe in God, but believe that religions were only created because people sink into chaos without a structured system.

How can you believe that God exists and is the cause of everything, and then counter it by saying that religion and the concept of god were created by man.

Unless of course you simply to believe the religions got it right. That is a perfectly respected opinion and if anything i believe that If there is a god, he simply created the universe and sat back to watch. Probably real boring existing forever alone, think of it as one big movie. just an idea tho....

[another day]

Quote by: nerdvincent Well, as an example, can we call someone Christian if he believe in the philosophy and the way of living the Bible taught them, without believing that Genesis, Reincarnation and even the existence of Jesus was the reality? Well and why not. Is the contrary possible too? I know many who claims to be christian, who believe blindly that biblical creationist is the only way but when somebody hit them...well they don't use the Jeez way. This said, I don't ''believe'' in Bible in neither way.

Good points. I'm not a christian, but I think you have a very good point concerning the faith. It should be your mindstate and outlook on life that defines you as a "christian", if you so wish to call yourself one. "Believing" in the dogma of a book is superficially religious at best. The true religious will bring it into their emotions and way of living, like mother theresa did. As you explain, almost all christians do not actually follow Jesus's teachings at all. They won't turn the other cheek if someone hits them.