Why sex=taboo?

[nerdvincent]

Hello people.

I was wondering why sex is considered taboo. Is the human being ashamed of being unable to reproduce by parthenogenesis? Or is it for some weird, old forgotten reasons?

Come and answer.

[Milton Bradley]

It offends the religious, who happen to control most of the planet.


My biggest gripe is what the religious zealots did to Pacific Island cultures with their scary stories of God, and His thoughts on their behavior.


Sex is taboo because of the Judeo Christian religions in my opinion.

[nerdvincent]

Ge 2:25 ''And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.''
I don't agree with Mr Bible, but Mr Bible agrees with me...

[Jack]

Ah, but that was before "the fall".

Gen 3:7

And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

After the first couple disobeyed the master gardener, they were ashamed and covered themselves. I've never read a reasonable explanation about the relation between the introduction of sin into the genesis story and the attitude that nudity, and by extension anything sexual, is somehow shameful. But then the Bible isn't known for making logical progressions from point A to point B. The writers were desert nomads, not philosophical scholars.

Most prudish attitudes toward nudity and sexuality can be traced back to a religious influence.

[Maryjane]

I suspect a combination of religion, culture, and ignorance?

I didn't find out my father was a victim of pedophilia until a year or so ago when he refused to watch Broke Back Mountain. His aversion to homosexuality was based on misinformation. I remember my mother refusing to sign a permission slip so I could attend sex education class when I was in 6th grade. Sex was hinted at and giggled about but never fully explained. I lived in a house with 4 female sibs but no one told me about menstruation until I had my first period around age 12. Even then I don't think I got the full reason behind it, just the hygiene of it. If I had gone to that class I would have been better informed.

Those experiences have made me very open and honest with my kids about sex. I discussed nocturnal emissions, pregnancy, and homosexuality (among other things) with my youngest son when he was 9. My two older sons witnessed the birth of their brother. "Santa" put condoms in their stockings last christmas.

What you don't know can hurt you is my way of thinking.

[Pegs]

After the first couple disobeyed the master gardener, they were ashamed and covered themselves.

If said master gardener created man in his own image, I'd presume he required a cosmic fig leaf of his own to spare his omnipotent blushes.

[nerdvincent]

Exactly. But since politics and religion are supposed to go their own different way, why even asking if we can attend those classes? Did they ask you for teaching kid maths?

[Maryjane]

You have to remember Nerd, I went to school from1965 thru 1978. I recall religion highly influencing education when I was in elementary school. Spare the rod and spoil the child was quite common in public school! (unheard of today) The first time I ever heard an non believer's point of veiw was from my third grade teacher.

btw...Did Adam and Eve have belly buttons?

[nerdvincent]

I hope so! They would starve while watching football.


Creepy and off topic, but still Let's not deviate to a typical ''christian vs atheist'' thread.

[Suburbanite]

as an atheist, the only think i dont like about sex is how it makes me feel like an unintelligible animal mid-coitus. other than that, everything is honky dory

[Technosoul]

Quote by: nerdvincent Hello people. I was wondering why sex is considered taboo. Is the human being ashamed of being unable to reproduce by parthenogenesis? Or is it for some weird, old forgotten reasons? Come and answer.

Not and old concept, but rather a new one.

It is because we do not like to think that our saintly mother did the "nasty" so that we could be born.

In an attempt to block that "image" from the imagination we make sex somewhat taboo, the whore is always someone else that is not saintly.
We do not want our kids to know what we did to have kids and older kids do not want to think about their parents in that way.

It is too much like being animalistic, like doggies in heat. So we keep the gross activities private and secret, like a cat covering up it's doo doo in the litter box. If we had a way to hide farts we would do that also.

There seems to be no way to make the activity look like something they do down at chruch on Sunday. Humans have determined to hide the fact they are mere animals, and have this idea what we are civilized and above all that nitty gritty stuff. We use clothing, concepts about romance and marrage, ideas about god blessing a union, and anything else we can manage in order to keep out the idea that we are animals acting on an impulse to get sex. Even many words are taboo in houses where "morality" is mandated. And if used they are "cuss words" and not concidered to be nice things to say.

We have created a conflicting sense of truth and reality which has resulted in a lot of pretending as well as some phychological pit falls.
Because it is the decent thing to do, but also the hypocritical thing to do. Confused, the serpent battles the holy one and our mind is where the doomsday battle takes place. The snake always wins and so we might as well enjoy the apples while we are still able. Sex is paradise - lest we forget and get kicked out into the wastlands of morality by the boot of our own conscience.

PS - for humans, sex is best enjoyed if dipped in imagination and when you are not aware of anything that might be gross about it. It is the "gross aspect" we want kept out and taboo, and the imaginary parts that we want advocated or embraced.

[nerdvincent]

So it came from a mere feeling of shame, because we're having fun like animals? All this ''I'm holier than thou, barking dog'' is silliness at its higher point.
Can we get more stupid?

[Clarence]

Is it really taboo? Sure, there's a private nature to it, but our culture has managed to be pretty open about it. Here's one of those threads where Sonart might say exactly what I mean to say.

There is a segregation of sexual rights but nobody seems to mind enough to see. If it were a matter of individual rights (equality), there would not be this confusion about who is allowed to tie themselves legally and spiritually to another being.

[another day]

Quote by: Milton Bradley It offends the religious, who happen to control most of the planet. My biggest gripe is what the religious zealots did to Pacific Island cultures with their scary stories of God, and His thoughts on their behavior. Sex is taboo because of the Judeo Christian religions in my opinion.

i don'tt think you get it. his question is deeper then that. why does sex offend the religious?

[Sonart]

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I can't believe no one knows this...

Sex is taboo because it has a significant consequence... pregnancy**. And it's not actually 'Taboo', or none of us would be here. But it is to be taken very seriously, in light of that very serious consequence.

The sex drive in humans exists for the exact same reason it exists in all animals... reproduction. However, human beings, because of our large brains, must be born at a relatively helpless, undeveloped state, from which point it takes a minimum of 8 to 10 years to raise that children -- even in a simple tribal culture -- to a point where they can even begin to care for themselves, and it usually takes even more time -- 14 to 18 years -- to be raised and educated to a point where they can become a knowledgeable, contributing adult member of the tribe. This takes a major commitment on the part of both the mother and father, the former to nurture, the latter to provide, as well as the commitment of their extended families and other tribe members... teachers, healers, providers, etc.

When you add cultural status into the mix, it also becomes vitally important that clear family lines are maintained and not muddied up with willy-nilly sexual relations and their various issue. That's where arranged marriages came from, and heaven forbid pregnancies that were not part of the plan.

This is also why, among other things, victors in wars often rape all the women... to impose further hardship on the survivors, as well as symbolically and literally screwing up their familial connections.

Given all this, it's vitally important for the tribe that no one gets pregnant who is not prepared to undertake this commitment and therefore important that sex itself not be taken lightly... as in recreational. It's also why adultery is almost universally frowned upon... it undermines the cohesion and commitment of the family unit, threatens the genetic purity of the family and creates disharmony within the tribe.

**Now before all you clowns start bombarding me with 20th/21th century cultural shifts and mores, let me remind you that fairly sophisticated human beings have been around for 100s of thousands of years, and have been living in civilized, agricultural societies for up to 10,000 years. Attitudes towards sex have become culturally ingrained thoughout all that time, so you can't possibly expect the Pill and a few generations of relaxed sexual attitudes to change all that.

Plus everything I've pointed out still applies... sex should be taken seriously. I find it's the young whippersnappers and thoughtless libertines who ask the question in the first place... why is sex taboo? What they actually mean is, "Why won't people let me have more of it?"

Quote by: another day i don't think you get it. his question is deeper then that. why does sex offend the religious?

Because religion exists as the self-appointed authority, the keeper of the rules of society. It's our group and individual consciences speaking to us, our better angels, our societial common sense telling us what's right and wrong, keeping us from the temptations of our imaginations letting our worst instincts... lust, greed, aggression, etc. ...run amok. We invent God as the unassailable authority to provide these rules, but it's actually our own instincts telling us how to live in harmonious and cooperative groups.

To the young, impatient, self-indulgent and hormone besotted, these rules can probably seem arbitrary and tiresome.

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[nerdvincent]

Quote by: Sonart . 1- threatens the genetic purity of the family and creates disharmony within the tribe. 2-t's actually our own instincts telling us how to live in harmonious and cooperative groups.

1- Genetic purity? It sounded almost clever, but are you talking of inbreeding?

2- Are instincts good for ruling society? Furthermore, does instincts actually RULE society?

[Sonart]

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Quote by: nerdvincent 1- Genetic purity? It sounded almost clever, but are you talking of inbreeding?

There's the wonkish answer and the aristocratic answer...

The Wonkish -- you know that if a new Alpha male takes over a pack (wolves, lions, horses, whatever) the first thing he does is kill all the existing offspring. This is because he instinctively wants to insure his own genetic lineage. Humans are not so different, if less drastic. It's not uncommon for step-parents to favor their own offspring over their step-children, sometimes dramatically. It's instinctive.

The Aristocratic -- as human civilizations began to be stratified by wealth, property and status, the purity of familial lineage also became important. Not only regarding questions of who are the direct heirs of a patriarch or matriarch, but who were legitimate members of the extended family who might benefit from that affiliation.

Again, this is the significance of arranged marriages, which have dominated the upper classes of human civilzations since... well, since they began. What good is negotiating an arranged marriage if you don't know with absolute certainty where a potential bride or groom fits in the family you're negotiating with. Bastards need not apply.

Quote by: nerdvincent 2- Are instincts good for ruling society? Furthermore, does instincts actually RULE society?

Sure, why not? As I've pointed out, we all have basic instincts for lust, love, aggression, fear, ambition, greed, jealousy, curiosity. We likely have more sophisticated instincts.. music and artistic expression, exploration, pair-bonding, language, and mathematics, as well as those instincts that contribute to social organizations... leadership and teamwork, cooperation, socializing, etc. Some social instincts can even have their dark sides... the mob instinct, group think, etc.

But our hard-wired instincts are simply the building blocks. As I always say, a wolf cub is hard-wired with the instinct to hunt, but spends its first years learning HOW to hunt. So likewise, it's our years and years of unique learning and life experiences which, when built on top of our unique and complex hardwired genetic circuitry, creates an exponentially complex individual, conscious human being.

So back to your question, yes, instincts are absolutely good for ruling society... the instinct to make and follow rules that insure harmony and cooperation within the group, instincts to lead and follow, instincts to learn and to teach, instincts to defend the group, instincts to invent and create things for social benefit. Etc. etc.

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[nerdvincent]

Of course. But does...''mutated'' instincts are good for ruling society? Liking you own mother than your step mother, I can understand. But not daring talking about sex, using silly methaphors to name a penis and hiding his genitals for the sake of hiding them isn't instincts. Their origins may be instinctive, but no more nowaday, or off context.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: nerdvincent Of course. But does...''mutated'' instincts are good for ruling society? Liking you own mother than your step mother, I can understand. But not daring talking about sex, using silly methaphors to name a penis and hiding his genitals for the sake of hiding them isn't instincts. Their origins may be instinctive, but no more nowaday, or off context.

Number 1, nerdvincent, you continue to think in 21st century terms about something that has been a vital part of the human condition since... well since humans could think about such things.

And besides, different cultures think differently about sex. Asians, for example, are not nearly as sexually repressed as Western Christians. Then again, most Asian countries also have HUGE populations.

And number 2, you apparently fail to understand the role of 'instinct' versus 'conscious thought' involved in cultural mores. Again, think of the wolf that has an instinct to hunt but must be taught HOW.

When a pair of macho young studs -- Biff and Barney -- go into a nightclub to scope out the chicks and try to get lucky, what they're NOT consciously thinking is, "Superior female genes at 4 o'clock... must propagate species by combining my superior genes with hers." That would be their instincts talking. What they're THINKING, based on years of cultural experience is something like, "Yo, dude, check out the hooters in the red dress, 4 o'clock. Cover my wing, cuz I'm lookin' gooood tonight and I'm gonna score with this one!! What? Nah, Susie will never find out."

That last bit, of course, was his dick talking, because OF COURSE Susie will find out, and promptly dismiss our hero as being unworthy of having access to her superior genes because of his lack of the discipline, maturity and commitment needed to raise a future family.

But that, of course, is how the young and hormone driven think about sex. Among the older folks, who have already pair-bonded, begun families and are now running the society, their instincts are more mature and disciplined... young people should wait and not think about the reproduction process until they find a suitable mate to pair bond with and raise a family, like the rest of us responsible adults did. So to keep young people from thinking about it, you don't talk about it, you use silly metaphors and you do whatever dumb things your CONSCIOUS mind thinks of to support your UN-concsicous instinct that young people need to be more disciplined and responsible regarding the vitally important issue of procreation... sex.

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[nerdvincent]

Exactly. That's the reason why of course, but is it fair? Should we do so?