Philosophy and Politics

[Suburbanite]

well, a lot of people are being killed and tortured because of politicians

[nerdvincent]

We want causes, not consequences.

[Suburbanite]

haha, well, the cause is simple, its green and it fits in your wallet.
the point is neither the cause nor the consequences, but the MEANS, the how, not the what and why.

[Athena]

Quote by: Suburbanite haha, well, the cause is simple, its green and it fits in your wallet. the point is neither the cause nor the consequences, but the MEANS, the how, not the what and why.

I don't think it is that simple. The Bush family bragged of the US leading the New World Order, and you might notice our President has stopped doing that. Why? Because many people were horrified by the thought of the US being what Germany was, but in truth, during the Roosevelt administration the US adopted polical control of industry, and in turn industry took industrial control of government. This relationship between big industry and government existed since the Robber Baron days, in the early 1900 years, but never to the degree of these relationships developed during WWII.

At first we demoblized our military and supporting industry, at the end of WWII, and then we engage in the Koran War, and during the Eisenhower years, we embedded the military and its supporting industry in our society, and it became an economic necessity in many communities. Without the military industry, many communities would not have wealth they enjoy today.

At the end of Cold War, there was no longer a justification for maintaining all this military industry. Fortunately, for those dependent on the industry, we have a war with terrorist that is justifying a huge expenditure on military cost, and the continued advancement of military weapons. Bombs are obsolete, as today we have cluster bombs. Military targets have to be very large to justify cluster bombs, and civilians in the area have far less chance of surviving a bombing, than in the past. I don't think these weapons are what we need to fight terrorism, do you? But- we have the New World Order, and that means we can attack pre-emptively- that is make the first strike, and we can gather up people and put them in prisoner of war camps and hold them indefinately, with no concern for their human lives and all those who love them. This is a changed philosophy.

The US was not such a military power, until after the second world war and the reasoning to turn the US into the world's greatest military power, spending more money on the military than any other nation. Our forefathers who rebelled against taxes to pay the British military, would be horrified that their country is now spending so much on military spending.

[Athena]

Quote by: Isherwood Has anyone seen that commercial in which the workers at a company play Bingo based on the "techy" terms used in a speech by the CEO? Sometimes I feel like doing that during the debates and interviews with the candidates. Maybe I could turn this into a game folks could play during the lead-up to the next election.

Sounds like a darn good idea to me.

[Athena]

Quote by: nerdvincent Very nice. But what's the problem with politics?

Whose politics? Within every society there are conflicting interest and different philosophical approaches to them all. The Greeks represented this fact of life with a family of Gods who argued among themselves just as humans do. I think going from many gods arguing with each other until there was a consensus on the best reasoning, to only one god, radically changes our philosophical approach to politics.

Money is not the only factor in politics. Religion is a huge factor, with the coastal states voting differently from the Christian dominated inner states. It pisses me off that the large number of Christian dominated states means getting Presidents who blend religion with politics, and start holy wars with support from the Christian Right, who seem to know nothing of the world, that isn't taught in their out dated bibles. I had a nieghor explain to me, the reason we have trouble with Arabs, is because Abrabam had two son's. The first one was with a hand maiden, not his wife, and at his wife's request, the first son was left in the desert and disinherited. These are the Arabs. The Jews, coming from the second son's line, and being favored by God. And these people have the right to vote! Put religion up there with money as a political factor.

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: Athena Religion is a huge factor

So yeah, as I said earlier, worldwide conservative ideas (judeo christian point of view and plato's philosophy in north america) are a big part of the problem.

[Athena]

Quote by: nerdvincent So yeah, as I said earlier, worldwide conservative ideas (judeo christian point of view and plato's philosophy in north america) are a big part of the problem.

Thank you. A statement that has something to do with philosophy in a thread about philosophy and politics.

I have as much trouble with Plato's perfection- being something created on a spiritual level, and nothing on the material level being quite as perfect, as have trouble with the Christian notion of heaven. Man, we shouldn't even being working with such unprovable fantasies. We can know nothing of that which we can not experience, so that leaves Plato's perfect spiritual realm, and the Christian heaven, in the realm of fantasy, regardless of how many people like the fantasy and want it to be so.

Greek mythyology is much more realistic in the beginning. Man is a pathetic creature before a god gives man the technology of fire. There were no perfect humans, or perfect souls, in a fantasied spiritual realm.
It would be a breath of fresh air to get real about our nature and what we can achieve. Politics should be well grounded in reality.

[Suburbanite]

Athena, you're talking about The World of the Forms. That is not equivalent to heaven, seeing as Christianity didn't even exist. It was the neoplatonists who are responsible for redescribing Plato in a Christian context. You're right when you say it is bullshit, but I'd say only for the same reason ALL metaphysics are bullshit, religion, plato, and science included.