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Thread: Christianity as a Global Threat

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    Sapere Aude Jack's Avatar
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    Christianity as a Global Threat

    This thread's title was penned by Brian D. McLaren, an author, speaker, pastor, and networker among innovative Christian leaders, thinkers, and activists. He has some interesting things to say.

    There’s a lot of talk nearly everywhere these days about the dangers of radical Islam. In some settings, people express similar concerns about Christianity, especially the dangers of a right-wing theocracy here in America. Whether the warnings come from “the new atheists” like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens or from secular-political voices on the left, the prospective villains are usually described as the Religious Right, Evangelicals, Christian Fundamentalists, and so on.

    But largely under the radar, there’s something else going on in the Christian community in the US and world-wide, and it’s a change worth knowing about. Many of us who are involved with this emergence of a new thing would describe it as a deep shift (don’t forget the “f”), even a kind of repentance. Growing numbers of us Christians are ashamed of the ways that we Christians have behaved in recent decades – from Evangelicals backing unjust and unwise wars to Catholics covering up priestly abuse, from Prosperity Gospel televangelists getting rich by ripping off the poor to institutional religious bureaucracies fiddling around in carpet-color-committee meetings while the world is burning, or at least warming dangerously.

    We have been arguing about the origin of species while an unprecedented extinction of species occurs on our watch; we’ve been fighting endlessly (and unproductively) about unborn children while achieving precious little for the already-born children in Darfur or Congo or Malawi or downtown Cincinnati. These stale expressions of bad faith have left many of us gasping for the fresh air of good faith.

    So along with facing up to our current and historic failures and atrocities, we’re engaging in a hopeful re-imagining of what Christian faith can be, become, and do in the future. My book Everything Must Change: Jesus, Global Crises, and a Revolution of Hope is a kind of cry, a plea, a prayer reaching toward this kind of faithful re-imagination.

    First, we have created an economic system that exceeds environmental limits, resulting in our growing, multifaceted environmental crisis. Second, this economic system is succeeding at making a minority increasingly wealthy, while simultaneously creating a global underclass whose standard of living falls farther and farther behind those who swim in luxury and excess. This growing gap between rich and poor exacerbates the third crisis: as the poor grow more desperate and the rich more frightened of their desperation, both sides arm themselves with more and more terrifying weapons.

    Fourth, I suggest that these first three crises, which I call the prosperity, equity, and security dysfunctions, turn like three gears, teeth in teeth with the others, and they are together driven by a central drive shaft which I call the religious dysfunction. Our world’s religions are failing to provide a story strong enough to inspire enough of us to deal effectively with the first three crises. In fact, all too often our religions provide destructive narratives – I call them framing stories – which reinforce our solution deadlock and drive our social machinery all the more recklessly and passionately toward suicide. To put it starkly, there are figurative religious suicide bombers as well as literal ones, and they are armed with stories.

    It’s at this level of framing stories that I see both the ugliness and hope of our religions, including my own Christian faith, which currently counts about a third of the world’s population as its adherents.
    Read the full article here

    In my opinion, this is the type of Christian who could participate in reasonable dialogue with those of other faiths and even non-believers. Here's a religious person who understands that religion can be a force for good or ill, and has a determination to exploit the good. I think he has a grasp of the core values of religion, which is not the encouragement of exclusionary isolationism or the joyful condemnation of those outside the faith. It's using the positives in religion to effect a positive influence on society.

    An interesting man with an interesting message.



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    9/11: Inside Job PatrickHenry's Avatar
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    I like David Ray Griffin



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    Sapere Aude Jack's Avatar
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    I'm happy for you, but this thread has nothing to do with conspiracies.



    The Forum Rules

    Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
    [John F. Kennedy]
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    [Senator Dick Clark of Iowa]
    The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
    [Terry Pratchett]

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    pregnant with truth Clarence's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Isherwood View Post
    I'm happy for you, but this thread has nothing to do with conspiracies.
    nothing?

    from Evangelicals backing unjust and unwise wars to Catholics covering up priestly abuse, from Prosperity Gospel televangelists getting rich by ripping off the poor to institutional religious bureaucracies fiddling around in carpet-color-committee meetings while the world is burning, or at least warming dangerously.



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    BANNED Zhavric's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Isherwood View Post
    In my opinion, this is the type of Christian who could participate in reasonable dialogue with those of other faiths and even non-believers. Here's a religious person who understands that religion can be a force for good or ill, and has a determination to exploit the good. I think he has a grasp of the core values of religion, which is not the encouragement of exclusionary isolationism or the joyful condemnation of those outside the faith. It's using the positives in religion to effect a positive influence on society.
    While the bolded should be what a religion does, it's not what Christianity does. Not at face value. The problem is that all those people the author mentions making Christianity look bad, they can do so with a defendable interpretation of the bible. That is a problem. A huge one.

    It tells us Christianity is more interested in following archaic rules than in ending suffering. This is the trump card the radicals will always be able to play on moderates. "You're not interpreting scripture correctly. This crappy thing we're doing? It's justified right here on page blah."

    Human rights and the relief of human suffering, these don't come from more religion. They come when people challenge and reject religion. We shouldn't be reaching out to these people to pander to them. We should be reaching out to these people to tell them to take the next logical step: to reject religion and focus on eliminating human suffering.


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    I agree that the Bible is an extremely dangerous text, Zhavric. However, to liken Christianity to human suffering, I think that does a disservice to understanding how helpful a character like Jesus can be to some people. My rejection of religion has not intrinsically made me a more peaceful person, either.

    I like this guy Irsher posted, only if as a means to keep radical Christians from exploding bombs over Muslim's. This is the kind of Christian I think Christians should be, and I think that politicians who are evoking Christianity should be removed from office.


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    Quote Quote by: Suburbanite View Post
    I agree that the Bible is an extremely dangerous text, Zhavric. However, to liken Christianity to human suffering, I think that does a disservice to understanding how helpful a character like Jesus can be to some people.
    I didn't liken Christianity to human suffering. I pointed out Christianity is often unconcerned with human suffering. Take the spread of AIDS in Africa (and around the globe) and the Catholic church's continued refusal to endorse condom use. The church is more worried about the idea sex is happening than about the dire consequences of it.

    I like this guy Irsher posted, only if as a means to keep radical Christians from exploding bombs over Muslim's. This is the kind of Christian I think Christians should be, and I think that politicians who are evoking Christianity should be removed from office.
    While I'll take the guy in the op over a radical Christian any day, what you fail to understand is that the sentiment in the op is what leads to radical Christianity. Moderate religion is the breeding ground for radical religion. We know this. It's proven. The London bombings proved it. 9/11 proved it. It continues to be proven in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's how things work.

    The answer is less religion, not moderate religion. Moderate religion always leaves that open pathway to radicalism.


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    I think that small protestant churches have helped a lot more people than they have harmed. Catholics are crazy, I agree. But a little private worship of Jesus can make a man a lot better. And I'm an atheist saying this, but look at people coming out of jail. The ones who bring Jesus into their lives sure seem a lot better for it.

    I think that if history shows us anything, we can be duped into war with or without religion, but it always requires that we are somehow duped.


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    Hucking Fuskies HelioPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Zhavric View Post
    While I'll take the guy in the op over a radical Christian any day, what you fail to understand is that the sentiment in the op is what leads to radical Christianity. Moderate religion is the breeding ground for radical religion. We know this. It's proven. The London bombings proved it. 9/11 proved it. It continues to be proven in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's how things work.

    The answer is less religion, not moderate religion. Moderate religion always leaves that open pathway to radicalism.
    100% proven? Not every war or act of violence is religiously motivated. Humans use any excuse to resort to violence to obtain their goals. Its just as easy to speculate every war could have had a different cover story than the good vs evil one used now.

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    Yourdeadthatsit!


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    Christianity is fading. There are few true zealots compared to Islam. I see islam as more dangerous not as a religion, but simply because of the number of ultra zealous followers. Christians, especially in america, are increasingly apathetic and areligious, even if they claim christianity on a census and go to church on christmas day.

    Look out kid, they keep it all hid.

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    MoreThanMeetsTheEye
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    I didn't liken Christianity to human suffering. I pointed out Christianity is often unconcerned with human suffering. Take the spread of AIDS in Africa (and around the globe) and the Catholic church's continued refusal to endorse condom use.
    I will agree with you that Catholicism is full of many unnecessary superstitions but, your statement remains completely unfounded. You have no evidence that the Catholic church is unsympathetic to crisis in Africa.
    The church is more worried about the idea sex is happening than about the dire consequences of it.
    I think the church is quite aware of the consequences of promiscuous sex which might be why they preach abstinence until marriage.

    Your ignorant posts imply that atheists care or do more about human suffering than Christians. There has been far more good done in the name of Jesus Christ than bad( not that there hasn't been terrible things done in Christ's name) but it is absurd to think that atheism would solve all the world's problems.
    I think that politicians who are evoking Christianity should be removed from office.
    Suburbanite, you seem to be one of the more reasonable people in this forum but what you have said is highly illegal, unconstitutional, and close-minded.

    No sacrifice, No victory

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    Oh, I mean, for war mongering purposes. Sorry I didn't clarify.


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