The Golden Compass

[phoenix_fire]

Well, all of that sets the stage for the other two, which are more anti-theistic. Like I said. I like the first book. I've read it several times. I have to bite my tongue through parts of it, but it's not that bad. It's like the Matrix to me: if it would have stopped at the first one, it would have been so much better.

[The Bacon Guy]

I don't think the other two books were particularly anti-theistic either. Again, the main enemies of the book are the self-proclaimed representatives of God: Metatron and Mrs. Coulter.

It's even revealed that the Authority is not the creator of the multiverse; he's simply an angel who seized control from the true creator. As such, I don't see it as an attack on religion, but on the way religion has been interpreted, corrupted and manifested on Earth.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Personally, I've read the entire trilogy. I liked the first book alright. There were a few places that I didn't care for, but I suspend a certain amount of reality when I read fiction anyway. I will have to say, however, that there were some themes in there that I thought might not be appropriate for children. The other two books, however, absolutely disgusted me. They reeked of personal vendetta. And the idea of someone writing about deicide chills me to the very core of my fiery being. Reading the final book seriously made me gag. I know most of you will disagree, but that was my personal opinion. The first book would have been tons better if it had not been followed by the other two.

SPOILER WARNING:

So, you're okay with the idea of a vengeful insane angel ruining all of Creation? You're okay with religious institutions that repress & bully believers and persecute non-believers? Because that's what the kids were fighting against and that battle apparently made you gag. Is that really your argument?

[Kakumei]

Just a quick question, does the Golden Compass have an actual name or do they just call it the Golden Compass.

[Sillystarryeyes]

Honestly, the way i look at it is that everyone has their own interpretation of the book, as i'm sure they will of the movie. We allow Christian movies to come out all the time, and of course, when there is a movie that isn't christian someone has to jump up and start trying to boycott it. If you don't like what it has to say, just don't go see it. It's really not that difficult people. It's the same as any other movie really. Such as a horror movie. I'm sure that not everyone likes something like that, and as such, they don't go see them. They don't waste their time debating about it completely not being shown. Seriously people, grow up.

Boycotting a movie is the same thing as boycotting art in any kind of form. It is boycotting something that the constitution protects; our freedom of speech, and as such, i believe that everyone throwing such a fit over something like this is a waste of your breath. If you do succeed in boycotting it, then someone will be right behind you with a lawsuit about the freedoms that have been taken away.

[Kakumei]

Quote by: Sillystarryeyes Honestly, the way i look at it is that everyone has their own interpretation of the book, as i'm sure they will of the movie. We allow Christian movies to come out all the time, and of course, when there is a movie that isn't christian someone has to jump up and start trying to boycott it.

Personally, a movie is a movie. Im a Christian, but the movie looks awsome, If i have money, ill watch it.

What I want to say is yes, the movies are attacked when atheism seems to be in it, however, atheists allways attack us when there is 'god' in schools, or in the Pleadge of Allegence, while allowing schools to talk about evolution all the time. Same story, diffrent battle ground. To me, id like a religious and a biology class here and there, but I dont got it and ill just do with what I got.

[phoenix_fire]

I have a problem with indoctrination in general. Even Christian indoctrination. I think that it is better for children to be presented with the arguments and to make the right decision on their own. Children that are heavily indoctrinated into Christianity and not allowed to think will often eventually come to resent it and turn on their faith altogether. At that point, it would have been better for them to have been raised without any religious instruction at all. People tout something that effectively amounts to atheistic indoctrination as a catalyst for free thought based on the assumption that Christian indoctrination saturates everything in the culture and the only cure is something entirely opposed to it: no matter how indoctrinating it is itself. There are so many things wrong with that set of assumptions.

[Sillystarryeyes]

I am living proof of the whole indoctrinating family causeing the children to turn against their religion. I had a family that was VERY religious, almost to a point that it was suffocating. I'm sure they are behind the people that are trying to boycott this movie. It's one of those things to me though that i really don't understand. So many people try to control every aspect of everyone elses life that they forget that the God they are trying to force on everyone created man with FREE WILL, giving them the ability to decide for themselves what they do, what they want, and how they live their lives. That's why i don't understand why people can be SO controlling about something as stupid as this.

[phoenix_fire]

I suppose I need to clarify for a minute: I'm not trying to get people to boycott the movie. I'll probably see it myself, although I probably won't tell anyone. I just thought that it brought up some interesting points to debate.

[Sillystarryeyes]

I'm sorry if i come off really upset. I have nothing against christians, or christian viewpoints. And to each their own as far as i'm concerned. As long as they don't try to push their viewpoints on me, i honestly don't mind. I know i'm going to go see the movie(s), and i'm going to be reading the books again.

[Sonart]

.

To be honest, I didn't see the book as overly anti-theistic. The main enemy in the book was the Church; not the belief in God. As such, I see it as more anti-authoritarian than anti-theistic.

Sounds like Lutherans.

Seriously, Christians were overjoyed when the 'Chronicles of Narnia', a covertly Christian parable, and 'The Passions of the Christ' came out. Goose and gander, right? Besides, like several have said, killing God hardly sounds like an atheist theme... I mean, how do you kill what doesn't exist.

I haven't read the books, but are you sure God isn't... say.. the Pope, instead?

.

[Chris]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Personally, I've read the entire trilogy. I liked the first book alright. There were a few places that I didn't care for, but I suspend a certain amount of reality when I read fiction anyway. I will have to say, however, that there were some themes in there that I thought might not be appropriate for children. The other two books, however, absolutely disgusted me. They reeked of personal vendetta. And the idea of someone writing about deicide chills me to the very core of my fiery being. Reading the final book seriously made me gag. I know most of you will disagree, but that was my personal opinion. The first book would have been tons better if it had not been followed by the other two.

but it isnt deicide if the "god" turns out to be a fake.

[phoenix_fire]

If you murder someone in your heart, you might as well have shot them in the temple anyway.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Sonart . Sounds like Lutherans. Seriously, Christians were overjoyed when the 'Chronicles of Narnia', a covertly Christian parable, and 'The Passions of the Christ' came out. Goose and gander, right? Besides, like several have said, killing God hardly sounds like an atheist theme... I mean, how do you kill what doesn't exist. I haven't read the books, but are you sure God isn't... say.. the Pope, instead? .

Well...

Quote by: Red Hot Catholic Love Stephen: Yeah! Let's kill God! YEAH! Randy: Well... Well let's just be atheists. Stephen: Same thing.

[Jack]

If you murder someone in your heart, you might as well have shot them in the temple anyway.

Could you just tell me if I ever piss you off?
I suspect there have been several people in my life that would have liked to see me dead. Obviously that wasn't as deadly as a bullet to the head.

[Jack]

Philip Pullman is an atheist. No argument there. The 61-year-old Brit — the grandson of an Anglican parish priest — often has written about atheism, is an honorary associate of the Secular Society (a British organization that promotes secularism) and appeared in the 2005 documentary feature “Why Atheism?” But he maintains that his Dark Materials books target not any individual religion but rather totalitarianism in all its forms, from communism to theocracy. While the “Magisterium” of his novels may resemble the Roman Catholic Church (it has bishops and monks and an executive committee called the Vatican Council), Pullman never describes its theology or identifies it as Christian. Instead he presents it as an authoritarian entity that attempts to control all aspects of individual’s lives through assassination, kidnapping, torture and strict control of information. “It doesn’t matter to me whether people believe in God or not,” Pullman has written. “What I do care about is whether people are cruel or whether they’re kind, whether they act for democracy or for tyranny, whether they believe in open-minded inquiry or in shutting the freedom of thought and expression. “Good things have been done in the name of religion and so have bad things; both good things and bad things have been done with no religion at all. What I care about is the good, wherever it comes from.”

www.kansascity.com | 12/01/2007 | Critics say ‘The Golden Compass’ is an atheist agenda disguised in fantasy

Then there's:

According to Fox News, the novelist has said his books are in response to C.S. Lewis' series The Chronicles of Narnia, which he has called "one of the most ugly and poisonous things" he's ever read. "I hate [the 'Narnia' books] with a deep and bitter passion, with their view of childhood as a golden age from which sexuality and adulthood are a falling away," said Pullman.

Salt Lake Tribune - Hodges: Will 'Compass' point kids toward atheism? too soon to say

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Isherwood Could you just tell me if I ever piss you off? I suspect there have been several people in my life that would have liked to see me dead. Obviously that wasn't as deadly as a bullet to the head.

I wasn't being entirely serious...entirely. You've never really irritated me that much. I disagree with you on several things, but I respect your civility and relative objectivity.

[Jack]

So I don't have to worry about getting a horse head on my pillow? That's a huge relief.

[Athena]

Quote by: Isherwood Could you just tell me if I ever piss you off? I suspect there have been several people in my life that would have liked to see me dead. Obviously that wasn't as deadly as a bullet to the head.

And hopefully the ill feelings will pass.

I went through a very troubled period of time, imagining killing a lot of people. When Jesus said thinking bad things is equal to doing them, I think he was making a point that when we think bad things, something is wrong with us and we need to heal ourselves. The reason to forgive is if we don't the ill feeling eats us up. The person we despise is not hurt by our ill feelings; we are hurting ourselves.

I don't think anyone is fit for heaven, before over coming personal problems and short comings, because it just isn't right for a magical power to suddernly change us. If this were desirable, why wait until we reach heaven? What if we all came to peace with our lives and those around us, in 15 minutes or less. That would be a life improvement wouldn't it?

[Athena]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Well, all of that sets the stage for the other two, which are more anti-theistic. Like I said. I like the first book. I've read it several times. I have to bite my tongue through parts of it, but it's not that bad. It's like the Matrix to me: if it would have stopped at the first one, it would have been so much better.

Unfortunately, that is true of many serial books and most movies. Books turned into movies, are often not as good as the books.