Holy books and war

[Athena]

The following is from the bible, and while reading it, I remembered the US did not have much of a standing army, because it demoblized after every war. Only during the Eisenhower administration and following the Koran war, the US did not demobilized. The Eisenhower administration embedded the Military/Industrial Complex into our society. I think the following explanation of war is why the US was largely unprepared for war at the start of world wars.

Defense and War: a Biblical Perspective The Bible gives a nation the right of self-defence. However there are a number of principles which should control the civil government’s exercise of this authority in the fulfilment of its responsibilities. War is only justified for defence (Romans 13:1-8). It should not be used to expand a nation's boundaries, or to take control of another nation, or to extract trade advantages. This is a fundamental principle. A nation should never need to establish military domination in another region or nation. The idea of a Christian Holy War has no basis in Scriptures. The nation of Israel conquered and destroyed the Canaanite nations. This was only done after a specific and direct command from God (Deut 7:1,2). This was a special case where God had a specific purpose in terms of the salvation he planned for Israel. It is not an example that can be followed by Christians or a Christian nation. We should not use war to win people for the gospel. (We should be honest and admit that the crusades were a mistake, however well-intentioned the crusaders may have been). A Christian nation must not have a large "standing army"(Deut 17:16; 1 Kings 10:26-29). An army that is constantly training for war is dangerous, because it will be tempted to find a situation where it can use its skills. The military should not be given too much political power, as they will have a tendency to use war to solve all problems. The defence force should take the form of a part-time local militia. The central command structure may be full-time professional so that the defence of the nation can be well organised (Deut 20:5). However, most of the soldiers will be trained civilians who can be called up when a defence force is needed. As they have other interests there will be no danger of them becoming over militant and fighting unnecessary wars. However, because they will be defending their families and friends they will be highly motivated if they are needed. They will be well prepared, but they will be only rarely called upon to fight. The militia should be up made of volunteers. Anyone who is faint-hearted or afraid should not be forced to fight (Deut 20:5-9). People who are at a critical stage in their lives should not be forced into military service. For example, men who have recently married, started building a house or started a business should be freed from service, because they would not be focused on the battle. The army of a Christian nation will not have offensive weapons (Deut 17:16). God forbade the king from acquiring great numbers of horses for himself. The reason for this was that horses and chariots, at that time, were offensive weapons used for attacking other nations. The defence of the nation would not need large numbers of them. A modern defence force should choose weapons that are best for defensive purposes. Only the civil government has authority to declare war. Individuals or companies do not have the authority to commit a nation to war. Any declaration of war must be in accordance with correct legal processes (Deut 20:10). War should always be the last resort. Before declaring war, the civil government should try every means possible to obtain peace (Deut 20:10). We should never forget the horror of war. It is always costly in terms of human suffering. Christians should never glorify war. While it is an honour for a man to give his life to defend his family and community, war is never an ideal solution. A Christian government should be prepared for war, if it is attacked, but it should also hope that it would never have to fight. A Christian nation should always seek God’s will before declaring war. A nation going to war, because it thinks it is right, is being presumptuous (Deut 1:41-44). Presumption is a terrible sin. If the war has God’s blessing, the army is more likely to have success. A Christian government should only declare war if it thinks it has a reasonable chance of success. Jesus said that before a king goes to war, he should sit down and consider whether he can match the army that is coming against him. If not he will send a delegation to ask for terms of peace (Luke 14:31-32), even if this involves a loss of freedom. For Christians freedom is not an absolute value. It may be better to lose freedom to govern, than to lose a large number of lives in an unsuccessful defence. In fact, because Jesus has set us free, we cannot lose our freedom.

While this seems to discourage war, knowing a little about Jihad and what Kuldeep has to say, I want to point out, the bible is speaking about earthly wars for land and the taking of slaves, not spiritual war.

[J. Askiloupos]

I'm not sure, Athena, that the founders of the US military would have based their composition on Hebrew religious/martial tradition, but it's an interesting thought, to be certain.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

perhaps spiritual wars can only be declared if full presence of evil is suspsected or the hand of the devil

[phoenix_fire]

That would be difficult to decipher. Evil shadows the visages of all fallen men. And the devil is in every battlefield turning desperation into butchery and despair into cruelty. He exploits the innocent and baptizes them in the blood of their brothers. He violently shuts the door of empathy and uses fear to confuse into frenzy. He cuts deep enough to leave a permanently insensitive scar, but not so deep as to give the release to death.

War is Hell.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: phoenix_fire That would be difficult to decipher. Evil shadows the visages of all fallen men. And the devil is in every battlefield turning desperation into butchery and despair into cruelty. He exploits the innocent and baptizes them in the blood of their brothers. He violently shuts the door of empathy and uses fear to confuse into frenzy. He cuts deep enough to leave a permanently insensitive scar, but not so deep as to give the release to death. War is Hell.

phoenix_fire valid quote and bringing the visage of battle to the for

war is indeed hell.

[Athena]

I was hoping Kuldeep would post before I got back to the thread, with his Hindu perspective on war. His view seems more like the Muslim Jihad. If we see 9/11 as an attack on the New World Order specifically targeting the institutions of the New World Order, the World Trade Center and Pentagon, then it could be judged as a defense against oppression, and I would bet this is how Bin Laden saw the action.
It would be nice if our rules of freedom of speech, included his explanation of the action. Anyway, here is a Muslim voice on the issue of the Koran and war.

Koran a Book of Peace, Not War, Scholars Say "The Koran is very specific with regard to the nature of human struggle, because in order for a human to be at peace with himself, they must control their baser instincts," says Nyang. The quest to control base instincts such as greed, lust, and cruelty and to seek spiritual purity is known by Muslims as the "great jihad." Featured widely in the Koran, the "great jihad" is a person's most important internal struggle. Nyang quotes Chapter 3, verse 172, of the Koran: "Of those who answered the call of Allah and the messenger, even after being wounded, those who do right and refrain from wrong have a great reward." But also in the holy scripture is a reference to "lower jihad," a more earthly and physical—and controversial—struggle. "To those against whom war is made, permission is given [to fight] because they are wronged; and verily, God is most powerful for their aid," quotes Nyang. This verse speaks of combat or war to be waged against one's oppressors—a struggle sanctioned by God. But the Koran also states in Chapter 2, Verse 190: "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors." The essence of the verse, Nyang says, is to fight back "if you are attacked by your persecutors, but don't fight back indiscriminately. Follow the rules of engagement." According to mainstream Muslim clerics, those "rules of engagement"' are explicit: women, children, and innocent civilians are off limits.

[Athena]

I think there are several reasons we must understanding the history of how religion influenced the National Defense decisions of the US, because that influence was not all bad, and I think Christians and US citizens, and Muslims, need to be called back to the intent of their holy books.

Is a nation more secure with a standing army than with a militia? Is a strong central government better than a loose confederation? Is violent resistance to tyranny morally justifiable? What respect should be paid to the people's right to keep and bear arms? David Kopel is Research Director of the Independence Institute in Golden, Colo. When the founders of the American republic grappled with these questions, one of their most important sources of wisdom was the Old Testament's history of the nation of Israel. In our times, when Bible literacy (especially knowledge of the historical books of the Old Testament) is much more limited than it was in the 18th century, there are still important lessons to be learned from the Bible's accounts of an ancient people. These lessons — in the dynamics of military action and the complexities of political process — transcend both the age of the Bible narratives and the question of their literal truth. Liberty – The Bible and the Second Amendment

Right now we once again struggling with the decision of the meaning of the right to bare arms. This is also a split between disarming citizens and making the dependent on a federally controlled standing army, or having a citizen control militia. What does our liberty require? What would make the world safer?