Church rejects interfaith service on its property

[Jack]

From the More Religious Hypocrisy file (we don't do as we believe folder):

Hyde Park Baptist says it didn't realize Muslims were leading annual Thanksgiving event. Austin Area Interreligious Ministries, the city's largest interfaith organization, announced Thursday that its annual Thanksgiving celebration Sunday had to be moved because Hyde Park Baptist Church objected to non-Christians worshipping on its property. The group learned Wednesday that the rental space at the church-owned Quarries property in North Austin was no longer available because Hyde Park leaders had discovered that non-Christians, Muslims in particular, would be practicing their faith there. The event, now in its 23rd year, invites Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Bahais and others to worship together. Organizers had booked the gymnasium at the Quarries in July and made the interfaith aspect clear to Quarries staff at that time, said Simone Talma Flowers, Interreligious Ministries' interim director. Several Muslim groups were acting as this year's hosts for the event. Kent Jennings, associate pastor of administration at Hyde Park, released a statement Thursday that said church leaders received a postcard about the service Monday and only then realized that it "was not a Christian oriented event." The postcard also "promised space for Muslim Maghrib prayer and revealed that the event was co-hosted by the Central Texas Muslimaat, the Forum of Muslims for Unity, and the Institute of Interfaith Dialog," according to Hyde Park's statement. "Although individuals from all faiths are welcome to worship with us at Hyde Park Baptist Church, the church cannot provide space for the practice of these non-Christian religions on church property," the statement said. "Hyde Park Baptist Church hopes that the AAIM and the community of faith will understand and be tolerant of our church's beliefs that have resulted in this decision." Central Texas Muslimaat and Forum of Muslims for Unity are local Muslim nonprofit groups that promote charitable works and education. The Institute of Interfaith Dialog holds regular interfaith gatherings that aim to teach non-Muslims about Islam. With hundreds of people expected to attend and only a few days to find another site, Muslim organizer Shams Siddiqi said they couldn't find another facility. That's when leaders at Congregation Beth Israel, Austin's largest synagogue, offered to host the celebration. "Symbolically, that's a very good thing," Siddiqi said of the joint Jewish-Muslim endeavor. Of Hyde Park's decision, he said it was "unfortunate that people still feel this way in this day and age." Some Christians object to praying with people of other faith backgrounds or allowing those people to worship in their sanctuaries. Hyde Park Baptist, an evangelical megachurch at West 39th Street and Speedway, is not a member of Interreligious Ministries, and church leaders were not planning to participate in the service, Flowers said. Every year, a different faith group hosts the Thanksgiving event, which typically includes food, prayer, song and dance. Last year, St. Louis Catholic Church hosted. This year, because the Muslim groups did not have their own space that was large enough, they decided to rent the Quarries, a 58-acre property near MoPac Boulevard (Loop 1) and Duval Road that the church has owned since 1984. Flowers said she was disheartened by the church's decision. "As a Christian, my first response is, what would Jesus do in this situation?" she said. She also stressed the importance of respecting all beliefs and said Beth Israel's involvement is a blessing. "They said, 'It's an honor to be able to provide the space, especially knowing our co-hosts are Muslims,' " Flowers said. Synagogue leaders said they would arrange space for Muslims to make their evening prayers, Flowers said. "What a great testimony of inclusion."

(Emphasis mine to call attention to the obvious hypocrisy)

Tell us again how religion is inclusive and how all faiths worship the same god. Atheists don't need to call attention to Christian elitism and divisiveness when they do it so well themselves.

Someone ought to sue them for criminal misuse of the term "interreligious".

[rez]

Quote by: Isherwood From the More Religious Hypocrisy file (we don't do as we believe folder): (Emphasis mine to call attention to the obvious hypocrisy) Tell us again how religion is inclusive and how all faiths worship the same god. Atheists don't need to call attention to Christian elitism and divisiveness when they do it so well themselves. Someone ought to sue them for criminal misuse of the term "interreligious".

But Isherwood, those Christians are not "real" Christians. They obviously misinterpret the Bible.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Isherwood Tell us again how religion is inclusive and how all faiths worship the same god. Atheists don't need to call attention to Christian elitism and divisiveness when they do it so well themselves.

But wait, you misunderstand the intention here. They really are all welcome, to come, and be converted to Baptist.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Isherwood From the More Religious Hypocrisy file (we don't do as we believe folder): (Emphasis mine to call attention to the obvious hypocrisy) Tell us again how religion is inclusive and how all faiths worship the same god. Atheists don't need to call attention to Christian elitism and divisiveness when they do it so well themselves. Someone ought to sue them for criminal misuse of the term "interreligious".

Umm...the Baptists weren't the ones running the "interreligious" service. Seeing as how it's their property, they have the right to dictate for what purposes their property can and cannot be used. Since they had no part in the "interreligious" business, I don't see how you can attribute hypocrisy to them. It's not elitism. These people believe that the property is consecrated to the purposes of their God. Letting people have religious services for some other belief would seem to be like a desecration. If they want to think the church is the building, that's their business.

[Jack]

"Although individuals from all faiths are welcome to worship with us at Hyde Park Baptist Church, the church cannot provide space for the practice of these non-Christian religions on church property,"

The lie is right there in the first sentence. "Individuals of all faiths" are obviously not welcome to worship at Hyde Park. They want to be seen as inclusive and welcoming when they're exactly the opposite. I call that hypocritical.

And since almost all of these churches are built using funds "donated" by their congregations, where's the mention of the congregation being consulted and deciding this issue?

[phoenix_fire]

They're invited to worship in a Christian service, sure. It's an open policy for guests. But they never said anything about having services for another religion there. If people of other faiths want to rent the facilities for nonreligious purposes, I imagine that would be ok. And I think that's what the Baptists thought was the deal here.

[Winter wind]

They are just being pratts. While they have the right to do whatever they will with their property, banning other forms of prayer is just stupid.

But considering Christians justified slavery, crusades, indulgences and a whole host of other things, this doesn't surprise me.

[phoenix_fire]

Oh really? And if my church group wanted to have a nice big Thanksgiving dinner in the local mosque with Bible reading and a delicious honey baked ham, do you think they would let us? I wouldn't expect them to, and the reverse should be true.

You forget that Christians also helped slaves escape to freedom, underwrote the emancipation movement, opposed indulgences, created numerous endeavors for the underprivileged, and a whole host of other things. What has that to do with allowing the worship of a strange deity in their holy place?

[Winter wind]

Woah there. I'm on your side. But I'm saying, if they want to complain about Christians, there missing out on the good stuff.

As to your first thing, I agree, but it isn't good just be be equal. It would be that much cooler to be the "better man." So Christians look that much more tolerant. Not to say Muslims are not, but they certainly don't draw the same kind of fire that Christians do on this site.

[Jack]

If god supposedly resides in his people, what does it matter what happens on the property? Or is this another example of "my father's house", where Jesus reportedly implied his father owned property?

To those of us not interested in excusing their decision, this incident is revealing of both their intolerance of the other faiths they say they welcome and their confusion over who owns the property. Is it god's, the member's who paid for it, the leaders who enjoy its benefits?

[rez]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Oh really? And if my church group wanted to have a nice big Thanksgiving dinner in the local mosque with Bible reading and a delicious honey baked ham, do you think they would let us? I wouldn't expect them to, and the reverse should be true.

Funny that you think two wrongs make a right.

You forget that Christians also helped slaves escape to freedom, underwrote the emancipation movement, opposed indulgences, created numerous endeavors for the underprivileged, and a whole host of other things.

Of course there are good people and of course there are bad people in this world.
How exactly does that support your point of view? What do you think every atheist is arguing about? It is obvious that you don't understand the arguments.

You think your religion gives you morals and some type of purpose in life, but it doesn't. You give your own personal purpose in life. God and religion have nothing to do with it. That is exactly why some humans are good and some are bad, it is all subjective personal interests that have nothing to do with jesus, demons, gods, angels, spirits and whatever magical stuff you think is real. You theists are all the same, yet strangely disagree with each other. Of course you even have some theists claiming they are all the same, but alas it can all be explained by each persons personal interests. But for some reason theists can't seem to understand that.

[gallo]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Oh really? And if my church group wanted to have a nice big Thanksgiving dinner in the local mosque with Bible reading and a delicious honey baked ham, do you think they would let us? I wouldn't expect them to, and the reverse should be true.

But, on the other hand, they didn't invite you to do so. The Baptists in the example did invite 'all faiths' to participate.

Can you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-te?

[Winter wind]

I just found something ironic.
As hypocritical as this is, why are we focusing on Christians. Why is it always the Christian topics that are posted? When certain governments prosecute Christians (I can't say where in case said government looks at my internet posts, but look at where I'm from for a hint) by imprisoning Church heads and even those with more then one Bible. But that never makes it to the thread. The Netherlands ban the burqa (the veil Islamic woman wear). And that wasn't due to Christianity as the Netherlands is one of the more secular countries in the world.

I'm not complaining (too much) I'm just asking, why Christianity?

[Winter wind]

But, on the other hand, they didn't invite you to do so. The Baptists in the example did invite 'all faiths' to participate. Can you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-te?

har, no kidding they didn't invite Christians.
The Baptists are at least allowing them on the property, just as long as they don't practice their faith (which is dumb, but still)

[HelioPrime]

If I gave someone permission to make a holiday display on my property, then rejected them after I found out it was a satanic display well that my concern. Its MY property.

People are sticking their noses where it doesn't belong here. Private property belonging to the church. Means the church can decide what goes on inside their property.

[rez]

Quote by: Winter wind I just found something ironic. As hypocritical as this is, why are we focusing on Christians.

Another common and really bad point that theists seem to keep harping on.

Theists are all the same. I don't distinguish between a Christian and Muslim. Faith has made all theists absurd thinkers.

And then again most posters live in America in which most Americans are Christians. In which case, most posters on this messageboard are Christians.

Now I would like to really know where you are getting at with those questions.

[Jack]

Then why don't they pay property tax like every other private property owner? And again, who owns the property, god, the congregation, the ministers, the denomination? Who gets to say what the property is used for?
Anyway, none of that rationalizing excuses their obviously contradictory statements.

[Winter wind]

Theists are all the same. I don't distinguish between a Christian and Muslim. Faith has made all theists absurd thinkers.

aww, absurd? I'm touched. Normally delusional is the term used.

You may not distiguish yet Christian topics comes up 9/10 times more then any other.

And then again most posters live in America in which most Americans are Christians. In which case, most posters on this messageboard are Christians.

Go figure...

[rez]

Quote by: Winter wind Christian topics comes up 9/10 times more then any other.

It must be because the Christian faith is the trufff...The evil demons are scared of the holy Christians, therefore, try as hard as possible to disprove their faith....

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Isherwood Anyway, none of that rationalizing excuses their obviously contradictory statements.

What is contradictory? A church where believers in a certain branch of faith do not allow displays of another branch of faith.

There is nothing wrong here except to much attention to the actions of the church.