Things That Have Always Existed: Why are they the way they are?

[Lullaby Chainer]

If they have always existed.. nothing would have had the opportunity to define or construct it.

So why is it the way it is?

This question becomes even more baffling when we have people saying beings that have emotions, morals, and creative power have always existed.

[The Bacon Guy]

I...don't know. And I will maintain this to be the only correct answer.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy I...don't know. And I will maintain this to be the only correct answer.

'Cept it's not an answer.

[Jack]

Of course it is. It's an honest answer.
On the other hand, who has been saying emotions have always existed?

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Isherwood Of course it is. It's an honest answer.

It's a response.

1 + 1 doesn't equal "I don't know."

"I don't know" doesn't answer something, it's just an honest response of humbleness.

Quote by: Isherwood On the other hand, who has been saying emotions have always existed?

Well, unless God developed emotions later in his life, Christians do.

[Jack]

1 + 1 doesn't equal "I don't know."

How about to someone who doesn't know mathematics? Would you prefer they guess?
"How many leaves of grass are in this field?"
"I don't know."
Now there are a finite number of leaves of grass, and by some method a precise answer could be found, but it's honest to say, "I don't know" if you don't know.



I don't know, either.

[HelioPrime]

Why does something have to have a contruct? Its hard to grasp we don't know.

Matter always existed, so doesn't that mean if an emotional thing existed then it to could always have existed.

[Jack]

So why is it the way it is?

What are the options?
What factors determined this "way" as opposed to that "way"?
How can we determine if the other "ways" were even possible?

Your question is too imprecise to be addressed with any kind of sensible answer.

[Century 25]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer If they have always existed.. nothing would have had the opportunity to define or construct it. So why is it the way it is? This question becomes even more baffling when we have people saying beings that have emotions, morals, and creative power have always existed.

Ahh.. your question: "Things That Have Always Existed: Why are they the way they are?"

Nothing lasts forever. Specify what "things", please..

[chrisphd]

Has empty space always existed? If so, why is it the way it is?

[Jack]

Has empty space always existed?

Only if objects with mass have always existed, if you mean space in general and not just outer space. Empty space can only be appreciated in contrast to the solids that it exists between.

I wish I could channel Alan Watts right now. This topic is quickly becoming Zen-like.

[Winter wind]

"I don't know" doesn't answer something, it's just an honest response of humbleness.

har, so what's your divine answer.

Has empty space always existed?

I've watched Elegant Universe now. I think the answer, according to what I've seen is: not in the way you're thinking.

Our usual definition of empty space is like taking a sheet of graph paper and saying that that is empty space, but it isn't. The graph is still there. Empty space is still space. Things can be defined on it. Even farther is Non-existent space. When you remove the graph paper, that is truly empty. So before space, there must have been undefinable blankness.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Isherwood How about to someone who doesn't know mathematics? Would you prefer they guess?

If they don't know the answer, they shouldn't pretend to, no.

Quote by: Isherwood "How many leaves of grass are in this field?" "I don't know." Now there are a finite number of leaves of grass, and by some method a precise answer could be found, but it's honest to say, "I don't know" if you don't know.

Of course.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Isherwood Your question is too imprecise to be addressed with any kind of sensible answer.

How can you make it more precise? I'm simply questioning where objects that we claim last forever get their qualities from. Especially fully functioning gods and such.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Century 25 Ahh.. your question: "Things That Have Always Existed: Why are they the way they are?" Nothing lasts forever. Specify what "things", please..

Any thing. How does any thing get it's attributes when it has always existed.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: HelioPrime Why does something have to have a contruct? Its hard to grasp we don't know.

Imagine a city. It has functioning traffic systems, conscious inhabitants, a police force, food services, and so on. Now imagine it has always existed. Or at least, someone is claiming it has. If so, how does it have its attributes and why? These are very specific attributes. VERY interlocked, functioning, attributes.

Take God for example. We may not know how he works, but we know that he has very specific attributes that would make him view homosexual activity an abomination. We know he has a sense of creative design.. the universe is far beyond a blog of ambiguous substance. These are very specific attributes. How can you account for them when the object, God, has always existed?

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer 'Cept it's not an answer.

That's because there is no correct answer to the question. Asking why something exists implies that there was a motivation behind its creation. Since things all arise as a result of the laws of physics, which have no intent or reason, we'd have to look back to the creation or spontaneous emergence of the laws of physics. No one knows how this happened, so "I don't know" is the only answer.

Although, I guess it is technically not an answer to the question; I'd say it's the only correct response.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Imagine a city. It has functioning traffic systems, conscious inhabitants, a police force, food services, and so on. Now imagine it has always existed. Or at least, someone is claiming it has. If so, how does it have its attributes and why? These are very specific attributes. VERY interlocked, functioning, attributes. Take God for example. We may not know how he works, but we know that he has very specific attributes that would make him view homosexual activity an abomination. We know he has a sense of creative design.. the universe is far beyond a blog of ambiguous substance. These are very specific attributes. How can you account for them when the object, God, has always existed?

I'll assume god hates gays and loves G W Bush. Now because god has human like emotions for them how does that in any way point at a contruct date? Could god have alternativly always had emotions, this is the just the latest showing?

[Jack]

How does any thing get it's attributes when it has always existed.

I still don't understand. What does an object's mortality or immortality have to do with it having attributes? Attributes are descriptions applied by humans to things we are aware of. Could you draw a correlation between immortality and character (attributes)?

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy That's because there is no correct answer to the question.

There is an answer. Just because we don't know doesn't mean "there exists no answer to the question".

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Asking why something exists implies that there was a motivation behind its creation.

I'm not asking that. I'm questioning things that DON'T have a creation.

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Since things all arise as a result of the laws of physics, which have no intent or reason, we'd have to look back to the creation or spontaneous emergence of the laws of physics.

Title of thread.. "Things that have ALWAYS existed".

Quote by: The Bacon Guy No one knows how this happened, so "I don't know" is the only answer.

If no one knew what 1 + 1 equals, would that mean there is no answer to the question? "I don't know" would become the correct answer? No, "I don't know" is a response saying you DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER. It's not the answer itself. The answer still exists whether we know it or not.

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Although, I guess it is technically not an answer to the question; I'd say it's the only correct response.

Bingo. That's what I've been saying.