No God?

[Kakumei]

Quote by: Wol PERSONAL ATTACK----------Go get em Ish!!!!!!!!!!! LOL LOL

I dont care if its a personal attack or not, the fact is, I hit a nerve, and im happy. Lol j/k. I think that he only sees his side of the story, he may not have ever read or really know much about God, yet he knows all about the natural world and evolution. If he only knows his side of the story, then hey, fine, he can call me what he is. I just think hes a shallow guy for saying all those things even when he really knows almost nothing about me. Science or Religion, I bet its agreed that hes shallow. lol. course im probably going to get attacked because i could be called shallow for calling him the same.

[Porfyra]

Another way of understanding this is that the 'Earth' that God created was another world that God created before hand. God used what was here and changed it to a liveable climate for the human race in the 7 days he did. Then he put us on here.

this is an interesting idea, but if this was what happened when why is there no mention of it in the bible?

[rez]

Quote by: Porfyra yes, he was male like a human, but actually you have that backwards. WE were made in HIS image, so it would be vice versa.

How do you know that?

yes, he created the earth. though i've yet to understand whether he created it in seven days or millions of years...

How you going to figure it out?

yes, he gave adam and eve a test of trust. and yes, they betrayed that trust by disobeying God.

Either the magical spirit gave the humans a test or the magical spirit did not give the humans a test. If the magical spirit did not give the test, there would be no decision to make. If there was no decision to make, then the humans lacked the ability to think for themselves. Free will and thinking for oneself are synonyms.

So don't contradict yourself or your fellow magical thinkers. Either the magical spirit gave humans the test hoping they would follow the rules (not think for oneself) or hope they did not follow the rules and would think for themselves.

Please explain the magical spirits purpose and site where this purpose is written down.

but you are incorrect about God being angry. he was not angry at all, just disappionted. and he had to punish adam and eve and the snake because they disobeyed.

Adam and Eve are being punished because they failed the test. However, if they did not fail the test the magical spirit would be happy, in which case there would be no free will. Just a bunch of mindless humans following the rules laid out for them given by the magical spirit in a magical place they call heaven.


So please explain how the magical spirit in invisible land is angry when "it" set itself up for the whole thing.

[Porfyra]

How do you know that?

Genisis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

How you going to figure it out?

research. duh.

Either the magical spirit gave the humans a test or the magical spirit did not give the humans a test. If the magical spirit did not give the test, there would be no decision to make. If there was no decision to make, then the humans lacked the ability to think for themselves. Free will and thinking for oneself are synonyms.

i told you, God gave them a test.

So don't contradict yourself or your fellow magical thinkers. Either the magical spirit gave humans the test hoping they would follow the rules (not think for oneself) or hope they did not follow the rules and would think for themselves.

i'm not contradicting myself, and if i want to contradict the other Christians i can because we may not believe the same thing.

Please explain the magical spirits purpose and site where this purpose is written down.

what do you mean?

Adam and Eve are being punished because they failed the test. However, if they did not fail the test the magical spirit would be happy, in which case there would be no free will. Just a bunch of mindless humans following the rules laid out for them given by the magical spirit in a magical place they call heaven.

if you think about it, adam and eve already had free will because they were able to choose to sin.

So please explain how the magical spirit in invisible land is angry when "it" set itself up for the whole thing.

i already told you, "it" wasn't angry.

[rez]

Quote by: Porfyra Genisis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

if god created man in his own image, then every human would be a male.

research. duh.

You should be booted off this forum for not complying with the rules. Please actually support your claims with evidence.

i told you, God gave them a test.

God gave them a test, but they failed the test. I would of thought that was a good thing....

i'm not contradicting myself, and if i want to contradict the other Christians i can because we may not believe the same thing.

Good for you, but you also need to admit your beliefs are no more true then anybody else's belief.

Failure to admit this is dishonest.

if you think about it, adam and eve already had free will because they were able to choose to sin.

But if there was no test, then they would not have the choice!

[Porfyra]

if god created man in his own image, then every human would be a male.

dude, READ THE VERSE! male and female he created them! if your dear auntie were to say you look just like your parent (of the opposite gender) would you tell her that's impossible? no. it is possible to have the image of someone who is not your same gender.

You should be booted off this forum for not complying with the rules. Please actually support your claims with evidence.

what claims? i made no claim except for stating that i believe God created the world. but there is no way for ANYONE to prove how the world was created, we can only guess or go by the words of someone we trust (in my case, God).

Good for you, but you also need to admit your beliefs are no more true then anybody else's belief. Failure to admit this is dishonest.

i never said there is no way i am wrong.

are you really tired or drunk or something? your arguments really aren't making much sense. you are picking apart little things i say that don't matter, why not debate the real stuff instead of arguing over insignificant sentences?

But if there was no test, then they would not have the choice!

I NEVER SAID THERE WAS NO TEST! i said the WAS a test. seriously dude, you aren't making sense!

[Wol]

Quote by: Marilyn Monroe MO is God should have been way more understanding, and in reality He knew they were going to do it, so why did He bother to create us at all? Really makes no sense. For God being as smart as He is the bible really sounds dumb. The big explanation is always, "God can do what He wants", but should He be this way with something He created? Doesn't make sense. It's all a mystery, and that's really all that can be said about it. There's no way to understand any of it. Possibly it's better to not to try and figure it out. This is why I think reading the bible can very well lead to more disbelief than belief.

Neither you, Marilyn nor I are God. If we were we might be able to understand all things. Not understanding something completely does not necessarily take away the fact that it could still be true.

[Wol]

Quote by: Kakumei I dont care if its a personal attack or not, the fact is, I hit a nerve, and im happy. Lol j/k. I think that he only sees his side of the story, he may not have ever read or really know much about God, yet he knows all about the natural world and evolution. If he only knows his side of the story, then hey, fine, he can call me what he is. I just think hes a shallow guy for saying all those things even when he really knows almost nothing about me. Science or Religion, I bet its agreed that hes shallow. lol. course im probably going to get attacked because i could be called shallow for calling him the same.

I'll pray for you, that Ish shows you some mercy LOL

[Porfyra]

Not understanding something completely does not necessarily take away the fact that it could still be true.

that is such a perfect way to put it...
thank you for that, Wol.

[Jack]

Not understanding something completely does not necessarily take away the fact that it could still be true.

If we don't understand something, we should poke and prod it, be skeptical of its claims, ask questions and require explanations.
Theism discourages this, asking people to just accept its claims on faith, thus locking the faithful into never understanding.

[Porfyra]

If we don't understand something, we should poke and prod it, be skeptical of its claims, ask questions and require explanations. Theism discourages this, asking people to just accept its claims on faith, thus locking the faithful into never understanding.

in a way, all things do this. well, most. take evolution for example. we don't understand it completely but we still accept the fact that it could be true, right?

[Jack]

Right. We're still researching, testing, looking at alternative explanations. It's one reason I find the answer "god did it" unsatisfactory. It's a non-answer that offers no opportunity to explore further, revise explanations, account for new discoveries or hypothesis. It's a dead end to the desire for knowledge. It presumes an understanding without actually offering one.

[Wol]

[quote=Isherwood;458388]If we don't understand something, we should poke and prod it, be skeptical of its claims, ask questions and require explanations.
Theism discourages this, asking people to just accept its claims on faith, thus locking the faithful into never understanding.




"If we don't understand something, we should poke and prod it, be skeptical of its claims, and require explanations"
ATHEISM "discourages this, asking people just to accept its claims on faith, thus locking the" ATHEIST "into never understanding."
I almost agree with you Ishy
You are not exactly right but God bless you anyway.

[Marilyn Monroe]

[quote=Wol;458576]

Quote by: Isherwood If we don't understand something, we should poke and prod it, be skeptical of its claims, ask questions and require explanations. Theism discourages this, asking people to just accept its claims on faith, thus locking the faithful into never understanding. "If we don't understand something, we should poke and prod it, be skeptical of its claims, and require explanations" ATHEISM "discourages this, asking people just to accept its claims on faith, thus locking the" ATHEIST "into never understanding." I almost agree with you Ishy You are not exactly right but God bless you anyway.

I don't see atheism as the same thing as religion, it has no doctrine, there's really nothing to believe in. Religion, on the other hand, does require a lot of faith, and belief. I have nothing against that entirely, but don't believe it should eat up your life. Many people are so involved with religion they forfeit a lot of "real" living. To me, God gave us this life to live it, I'd rather worship God through living and loving His creations, like animals, flowers, myself. Going into a concrete building and singing bad songs, saying prayers that are memorized, isn't true worship to me, it's going through the motions. That's how it was for me. Now when a good minister sings the "Our Father" that will bring on a flood of emotions, but I suspect that's nostalgia more than anything.

I don't see religion as the answer. It may be a way for some people to cultivate their inner selves, but I think we can do it by ourselves, with our own imaginations. I believe God is much more put together than the bible made Him. The bible is too restrictive, it doesn't grow. It's not just the bible, it's all theology. It's fairly impossible to achieve, and understand. I like simple.

[Porfyra]

singing bad songs

bad songs? how are praise and worships songs bad??

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Porfyra bad songs? how are praise and worships songs bad??

There are some that are beautiful, but many don't sound that good. Melody isn't that great.

[Porfyra]

There are some that are beautiful, but many don't sound that good. Melody isn't that great.

psh but that doesnt mean they're bad, just means you dislike the melody, right?

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: Porfyra psh but that doesnt mean they're bad, just means you dislike the melody, right?

I feel for me it's better to find God my own way, not a processed way. The songs really are just a point I was trying to make. Doesn't matter if they are good or bad sounding. You could be wasting your time singing them, but you might not be. It's a gamble. If as in some Protestant religions we are elect, those who aren't are definitely wasting their time going to church.

[Kakumei]

Quote by: Porfyra this is an interesting idea, but if this was what happened when why is there no mention of it in the bible?

There are many mysteries left unanswered in the Bible. The reason being behind this is because God has to teach his children things a little bit at a time. Would you expect a kindergarten teacher to throw Quantum Physics or Calculus at you? No. Perhaps thats all that God thinks we need to understand at this point. God never gave man the 10 commandments right from the beginning with Adam and Eve, perhaps because they werent ready for such complex law to them. Now they are simple for us and easy to understand, and since then he has added to those Laws, with the famous Sermon on the Mount that his son taught. He said not only that we should not commit adultry, but not even have the thoughts that are usually there before the action itself. In the Bible there are a couple verses that say he will give us the gospel and its laws 'Line upon Line, and Precept upon Precept. Lo, a little here and a little there.'

People believed that ever since the Bible was first published it was a completed work. I think not, where in the Bible does it say that its finished? Where does it say that God is finished telling us all that we need to know for our Salvation? Where doesnt it say that God has told us all that he wants us to know? I think there are Prophets to come and that there will yet be more things to be revield unto man, we must be carful though not to be decieved by false Prophets and false Christs, It warns us plenty about that throught the whole New Testament.

[Wol]

Quote by: Kakumei There are many mysteries left unanswered in the Bible. The reason being behind this is because God has to teach his children things a little bit at a time. Would you expect a kindergarten teacher to throw Quantum Physics or Calculus at you? No. Perhaps thats all that God thinks we need to understand at this point. God never gave man the 10 commandments right from the beginning with Adam and Eve, perhaps because they werent ready for such complex law to them. Now they are simple for us and easy to understand, and since then he has added to those Laws, with the famous Sermon on the Mount that his son taught. He said not only that we should not commit adultry, but not even have the thoughts that are usually there before the action itself. In the Bible there are a couple verses that say he will give us the gospel and its laws 'Line upon Line, and Precept upon Precept. Lo, a little here and a little there.' People believed that ever since the Bible was first published it was a completed work. I think not, where in the Bible does it say that its finished? Where does it say that God is finished telling us all that we need to know for our Salvation? Where doesnt it say that God has told us all that he wants us to know? I think there are Prophets to come and that there will yet be more things to be revield unto man, we must be carful though not to be decieved by false Prophets and false Christs, It warns us plenty about that throught the whole New Testament.

where in the Bible does it say that its finished?
At the end of the Book of Revelation