Shall I Wish Upon a Star:

[Praxius]

In Europe at the time when the Greek astronomer Ptolemy's (ad 127-151) view of the cosmos as a universe of interlocking spheres became the orthodoxy, there was a widely accepted and very poetic explanation for 'falling stars' which was entirely consistent with other deeply held beliefs of the time. It was thought that the gods, overwhelmed with curiosity, would sometimes look at the earth from between the spheres, and that in that instant a star or two might slip through the gap and become visible as a falling or shooting star. Since the gods were clearly peering down at that very moment, it was considered an excellent opportunity to voice one's wishes with the guarantee that the gods would hear them. This is probably where the idea of wishing on a falling or shooting star comes from, although I note that, "similar superstitions are widespread even in cultures remote from Europe: in Chile, you must pick up a stone in the same moment, and in the Philippines tie a knot in a handkerchief" (1)

Falling Star@Everything2.com

Throughout the centuries, long before Pinocchio came about from Dinsey, people have been always wishing on shooting/falling stars in order for something to come true in their lives, or to grant good fortune.

But I began to wonder about something which involves our evolution and this belief.

Picture this:

YouTube - Shooting Stars

So technically, ever since the dawn of space flight, we have been not only filling our orbit with tanks of space poop, but also billions of other parts and matter from many space travels since.

So I got to wondering, now that we are creating our own shooting/falling stars that we in turn wish upon to make our dreams come true, does this:

A) Make us our own Gods?

B) Creating an even faster evolution due to more wishes being made, due to more falling stars, therefore more success?

C) Deflating the power shooting stars have because of many more man made ones?

or

D) Make more chances of other aliens in the universe to come across a tank of our crap, rather then a probe with peaceful greetings, therefore causing our own destruction by our own poop?

Because I imagine if they opened the tank up and reintroduced it back into atmospheric conditions, oue poop could be quite fatal to them.

[Jack]

How efficacious is it to wish on a tank of poop re-entering the atmosphere?

[ItsDarts]

E, none of the above.

First Ptolemy invented the Zodiac based on 5 planets, not 8 (or 9) so not knowing there were more planets, how accurate could horoscopes be? Answer, not accurate at all, planets only line up with certains stars based on our particular perspective now. Every 23,000 years or so, the earths axis goes through whats called percession. Think of a toy Top slowing down and the Axis starts to wobble, this is what the earth does and it makes for huge changes on the planet. For one thing, the stars and constellations change in our view of the sky, secondly, Summer becomes winter in the northern hemisphere and vis versa for the southern.

Next, there is no point in calling ourselves gods with all our obvious flaws.

Any wish that comes true would have come true with or without the wish. Its called chance.

Shooting stars (Meteors) are not stars, they are tiny (relative to real stars) chunks of rock and/or ice left over from the creation of our own solar system.

As the video said, the poop vaults orbit our planet and do not leave our orbit until they enter our atmosphere. Any aliens stumbling across our planet would detect life long before they reached us. I say this based on any intelligent life capable of space travel would have instrumentation on board to dectect life on other planets. We currently have this capability and are using it this very moment in space.

Superstition isn't reality.

[Praxius]

Quote by: ItsDarts E, none of the above. First Ptolemy invented the Zodiac based on 5 planets, not 8 (or 9) so not knowing there were more planets, how accurate could horoscopes be? Answer, not accurate at all, planets only line up with certains stars based on our particular perspective now. Every 23,000 years or so, the earths axis goes through whats called percession. Think of a toy Top slowing down and the Axis starts to wobble, this is what the earth does and it makes for huge changes on the planet. For one thing, the stars and constellations change in our view of the sky, secondly, Summer becomes winter in the northern hemisphere and vis versa for the southern. Next, there is no point in calling ourselves gods with all our obvious flaws. Any wish that comes true would have come true with or without the wish. Its called chance. Shooting stars (Meteors) are not stars, they are tiny (relative to real stars) chunks of rock and/or ice left over from the creation of our own solar system. As the video said, the poop vaults orbit our planet and do not leave our orbit until they enter our atmosphere. Any aliens stumbling across our planet would detect life long before they reached us. I say this based on any intelligent life capable of space travel would have instrumentation on board to dectect life on other planets. We currently have this capability and are using it this very moment in space. Superstition isn't reality.

How did I know I was gonna get a response like this? :rolleyes:

I don't need some technical explination or your history facts, this is why this is in the Philosophy & Religion section, not Science & Technology ~ This is a Philosophical Question to make you think about other things besides what's real and what's not... it's about concept.

Regardless if his horoscpoes are wrong because he only saw so many planets is irrelevent, as I am talking about falling/shooting stars and the general belief humans have about them now, not the finer details of how they came to be.... that was a loose reference to get an idea of where this topic was going.

Space Poop causing our distruction by aliens was a semi - joke choice.

• In other words, put yourself into the position that you actually do believe this fable of wishing on stars. Think like you were a child, or a superstitious person... put yourself into those shoes for a moment.

• Now take the above knowlege of what most falling/shooting stars are, and try and answer the above questions.

If you can't grasp your mind around thinking about something that isn't tangible or possible to prove, then you're in the wrong thread.

[ItsDarts]

Sorry, I saw the video and it was definately a science related discusion of how to dispose of poop in zero gravity.

Philosophically, C would be the answer since you never know when you're wishing upon a falling container of poop.

[Praxius]

Fair enough.

This is kinda like a Pot of Gold question.... where there isn't really an answer to prove, but just to get the brain going.

I'm tossed up on the common definition... I mean, I understand it to be logical that if we are producing more "falling stars" then there are more wishes to be made.

But on the flip side, they're man made "falling stars" and not natural occurances anymore, as they are from ourselves.

But I guess it could also be a rubics cube view, where there is another side to flip. Are man made "Falling Stars" Natural, since we humans are in a sense, Natural Beings, since we are only doing what naturally comes to us? This would cancel out the whole Unatural Theory, therefore leaving only Option B. as the most logical choice.

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: Praxius Fair enough. This is kinda like a Pot of Gold question.... where there isn't really an answer to prove, but just to get the brain going. I'm tossed up on the common definition... I mean, I understand it to be logical that if we are producing more "falling stars" then there are more wishes to be made. But on the flip side, they're man made "falling stars" and not natural occurances anymore, as they are from ourselves. But I guess it could also be a rubics cube view, where there is another side to flip. Are man made "Falling Stars" Natural, since we humans are in a sense, Natural Beings, since we are only doing what naturally comes to us? This would cancel out the whole Unatural Theory, therefore leaving only Option B. as the most logical choice.

Well B also leaves us with this.... You said in B, "more wishes being made, due to more falling stars, therefore more success?" And I'm not clear on what you mean by success, but if you mean more wishes coming true, it also leaves room for more failures (wishes not coming true). Also, I have a problem with your definition of "Natural". Yes we are "Natural" but poop containers would be arguably not natural. Once egg and sperm join together, we form naturally, but put two natural elements together and you might not get anything. At some point, elements need help being "joined" and even after that, they will need more help to form even more complex molecules. Can we say Plastic is natural? My personal thought is no, it requires mans help and we have to decide at what point something is natural or not.

[Praxius]

Quote by: ItsDarts Well B also leaves us with this.... You said in B, "more wishes being made, due to more falling stars, therefore more success?" And I'm not clear on what you mean by success, but if you mean more wishes coming true, it also leaves room for more failures (wishes not coming true).

Then that would be Option C. but then if more wishes were not coming true, then it would sorta cancel out the old saying that your wish will come true if you wish upon one.

I meant successes as in most people when wishing for things, tend to wish for something that bennifits themselves or others, and if those wishes came true and they benifited from that wish, then I would dub that a success..... be that a roof over their head, food, a loved one returning, etc.

Also, I have a problem with your definition of "Natural". Yes we are "Natural" but poop containers would be arguably not natural. Once egg and sperm join together, we form naturally, but put two natural elements together and you might not get anything. At some point, elements need help being "joined" and even after that, they will need more help to form even more complex molecules. Can we say Plastic is natural? My personal thought is no, it requires mans help and we have to decide at what point something is natural or not.

A beaver damn is considdered part of a beaver's nature to create and survive.

A bird makes a nest for shelter and raising offspring.

An Otter or Chimp will use rocks or sticks as tools to gain better access to food.

All of these things could be argued that they are part of their natural instincts that they developed over the centuries...... therefore in my opinion, anything and everything we create and use is natural to our human species, no matter how fabricated.

Also, how do we know all of the things that burned up in our atmosphere were naturally occuring in space? There could be the possibility of some other forign object from somewhere else that burned up in the atmosphere which someone wished on.

----------------------------------------

Now this whole concept of wishing on stars, I am basing in this discussion as something of fact. I know it isn't, but I'm playing on the notion that so many people after so many centuries still hold to this folklore for some reason... and that only reason I can conclude is that perhaps some people's wishes have come true in the past.

Most likely due to coiencidence, but for argument sake, I'm just gonna go with it being fact for this exercise.

[Dadoo]

UNder the circumstances, were one to believe enough, they could wish upon most anything. Were the wish to come true, the agent is offered a choice: did my "wishing" make it real, did the "falling star", or is coincidence merely a way of living and believing? I wish for little, some wish alot-- praytell what is the difference? Needs or desires. Needfulness or lustfulness.

Dadoo 8^)