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This topic in Philosophy & Religion is about There simply is no God.

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Old Nov 4, 2007, 11:22 am   #41 (permalink) (top)
Lullaby Chainer
 
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Quote by: Chimera View Post
I'm not going to make long winded rants about 8 points about the same things I've been telling you in EVERY other topic on the board. You constantly make far too many assumptions about the Christian religion. It's repetitive, annoying, and does nothing but to further show how uneducated you are on the matter.
Chimera, like I F*(KING SAID BEFORE.

Do NOT post on this thread if you don't have the decency to support your claims.

Do NOT post on this thread if you don't have the decency to support your claims.

Do NOT post on this thread if you don't have the decency to support your claims.

Do NOT post on this thread if you don't have the decency to support your claims.

Got that?

One more time!

Do NOT post on this thread if you don't have the decency to support your claims.

GTFO of my thread or grow a pair and support your claims.


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Old Nov 4, 2007, 10:55 pm   #42 (permalink) (top)
HelioPrime
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LOL....so unless we can prove god exists don't post?

I guess its also not ok to point out assumptions or failings in your posts?


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Yourdeadthatsit!


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Old Nov 4, 2007, 11:13 pm   #43 (permalink) (top)
Lullaby Chainer
 
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LOL....so unless we can prove god exists don't post?

I guess its also not ok to point out assumptions or failings in your posts?
No, helio, you just gotta support things when you say "you presume too much about Christianity"

This is the second time you've said something stupid cause you haven't been paying attention.


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Old Nov 4, 2007, 11:26 pm   #44 (permalink) (top)
Chimera
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1.There are dozens of pre-Christian gods and messiahs that were born on December 25th, of a virgin, who had 12 disciples, performed miracles such as healing the sick and walking on water, crucified and resurrected three days later, and are known, by their inventors and followers, as such things like the Lamb of God and the King of Kings. Jesus is the most recent of a long list of plagiarized gods and holds no credibility. In fact, the entire Christian myth is taken directly from Egyptian myth. For instance, the 10 commandments are from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. The founders of Christianity acknowledged this but offered that Satan crafted the Pagan world to discredit Jesus. This explanation is still held by many religious leaders today.
You act as though Christians don't know this. As if the similarities to other religions is some forbidden fruit. Religions usually come about to teach morals, and explain things. That is not to say that Christianity isn't true, just that it's very possible that God used familiar images usually associated with gods to show his power....Seems likely. So in summary, you make the presumption that you're smarter than the average Christian, and that you're saying something unknown. By the way, we all know about Christmas not being Christ's birthday......
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3.The Christian justice system is a barbaric, idiotic, and ridiculous bifurcated mess of extreme bias and lop-sided foundations. Christianity takes crimes as despicable as murder, rape, cruelty, genocide, and so forth and deems them forgivable by an act as trivial as accepting Jesus as your savior. What moral foundations are there that back up the forgiveness of horrible deeds by simply accepting something that, demonstratively, does no statistical good at reversing these evil behaviors.
I just wanted to quote this to show how you contradict yourself....
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In fact, if I may ask, what finite sin is deserving of infinite punishment?
oops.
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4.Furthermore, on the topic of a deranged justice system, the Bible condemns those who want to believe in God
I personally do not believe that a good person goes to hell if he does not believe in God. I know a lot of people that agree with me, but I have met some that don't.
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5.No Christian has been able to sensibly defend why the means of enlightenment, the story of Jesus, is so poor of a method of conversion that the room for conflict is not only vast, but invited. A test of faith is not an acceptable answer. There is no test of faith worth the infinite damnation of billions.
You have a big God-given brain. Decide to do what you want to do. No Christian NEEDS to defend the Bible's capability to convert you.
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6.No Christian has been able to sensibly defend why the Bible is completely scientifically wrong as well as logically contradicting. This problem leads millions away from the Christian god, and once again, a test of faith is not an acceptable answer. There is no test of faith worth the infinite damnation of billions.
It's scientifically wrong because, in a mutually exclusive sense, science doesn't believe in gods.....I don't necessarily think the Bible's contradicting just confusing.
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7.I can't worship a God that supports slavery or the stoning of children.
Neither can Christians.
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8.Christianity, and religion in general, is a proven cancer to society. It has been shown that the more secular nations, in general, experience far less rates of violence and are more charitable in that they give more foreign aid to struggling countries. Atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 8-16%) are disproportionately less numerous in the prison population (0.21%). Why would the holy works of a perfect being be so ineffective if not hazardous?
You somehow make the assumption that someone that deviates from the morals of the religion, represents the religion.....Wow.
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Old Nov 4, 2007, 11:40 pm   #45 (permalink) (top)
Lullaby Chainer
 
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You act as though Christians don't know this. As if the similarities to other religions is some forbidden fruit. Religions usually come about to teach morals, and explain things. That is not to say that Christianity isn't true, just that it's very possible that God used familiar images usually associated with gods to show his power....Seems likely. So in summary, you make the presumption that you're smarter than the average Christian, and that you're saying something unknown. By the way, we all know about Christmas not being Christ's birthday......
Funny, most Christians I know DON'T know this.. and deny it when I bring it up. :)

TBH, it has nothing to do with what you do and do not knowing, buddy. These are reasons WHY I LACK BELIEF. kthx


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Quote by: Chimera
I just wanted to quote this to show how you contradict yourself.... oops.
'Fraid to say, but there's no contradiction there Chim.

I get the impression both you and Helio think of justice as some bifurcated matter.

Infinite punishment for a finite sin is TOO MUCH.

Easy forgiveness for a horrible deed is TOO LITTLE.

Cool, yes?


Quote:
Quote by: Chimera
I personally do not believe that a good person goes to hell if he does not believe in God.
Blasphemy is a sin.

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Quote by: Chimera
I know a lot of people that agree with me, but I have met some that don't. You have a big God-given brain. Decide to do what you want to do. No Christian NEEDS to defend the Bible's capability to convert you.
Actually.. yes, yes they do.

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Quote by: Chimera
It's scientifically wrong because, in a mutually exclusive sense, science doesn't believe in gods.....
Science, Chim, doesn't "believe" in this or that or "not believe" in that or this. You have a very sad understanding of what science is.

What you mean to say.. is most SCIENTISTS don't believe in god. Who can blame them? They're men and women of truth, not dogma.

Quote:
Quote by: Chimera
I don't necessarily think the Bible's contradicting just confusing.Neither can Christians.You somehow make the assumption that someone that deviates from the morals of the religion, represents the religion.....Wow.
W-w-w-wrong. I seem to make the assumption that I find it discreditable that the workings of a perfect benevolent being are so inefficient if not hazardous. Gee, you never would have guessed I thought that from reading what you quoted.. would you?


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Old Nov 4, 2007, 11:50 pm   #46 (permalink) (top)
rez
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You act as though Christians don't know this. As if the similarities to other religions is some forbidden fruit. Religions usually come about to teach morals, and explain things. That is not to say that Christianity isn't true, just that it's very possible that God used familiar images usually associated with gods to show his power....Seems likely. So in summary, you make the presumption that you're smarter than the average Christian, and that you're saying something unknown.
It is not very possible that "God" used familiar images associated with other "gods" to show his power. How can you possibly even know this without invoking the same evidence that all those other "god" believers used? How can you possibly even know this without invoking the same methods I use to reject your god?

The presumption is that you are a dishonest individual for even thinking your god is the only true god.


[i]"One objection that many critics have is the problem of logistics. However, with technologically advanced aircraft at His disposal, transportation for Jesus was NEVER a problem ---- loser
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Old Nov 5, 2007, 12:11 am   #47 (permalink) (top)
Athena
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=Chimera;448801]You act as though Christians don't know this. As if the similarities to other religions is some forbidden fruit. Religions usually come about to teach morals, and explain things.
There was nothing said about knowledge of other religions being some kind of forbidden fruit, however, Christians who do know of the past religions are extremely few, and many seem to think anything they are not taught comes from the devil, so they fear learning of other beliefs. This failure to know of other believes leads to many errors, such as Christians claiming what was of others as their own. They often seem to hold false beliefs about non Christians, such as "they don't have a god and don't know morals". How about, "they didn't believe in an after life". On and on the falsehoods go, because so few Christians do know of other religions.

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That is not to say that Christianity isn't true, just that it's very possible that God used familiar images usually associated with gods to show his power....Seems likely
. If God involved Himself at all, surely he did communicate with all people. Jung and Joseph Campbell studied shared myths and symbology, that seems to have sprung spontaneously around the world. There is the mystey of the Hundredth Monkey, where monkeys in a completely different location began washing their food in the ocean, when this practice reached critical mass with a troop of monkeys far away. There was no way for the second troop of monkeys to learn from the first, so something unusual happened, and I believe this something was spiritual in nature.

Accepting God has shared information with everyone, makes the bible extremely problematic, because the bible declares this God has chosen people, and indeed has a relationship with these people that is different from all others. I mean, the biblical explanations of things can not be true if God was sharing information with everyone. The old testament god is a tribal god, not a universal god. Not until Hellenism and Rome, does this god because a universal god, and that is why Christianity had to break from Judaism.

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So in summary, you make the presumption that you're smarter than the average Christian, and that you're saying something unknown.
When many Christians prove to be well informed, the problem will not exist, but so far we haven't had any well informed religious people posting. I am extremely frustrated in my efforts to have intelligent discussions with Christians, and it would be great if you prove Christians can be different from our experience of them.


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By the way, we all know about Christmas not being Christ's birthday...... I just wanted to quote this to show how you contradict yourself.... oops. I personally do not believe that a good person goes to hell if he does not believe in God. I know a lot of people that agree with me, but I have met some that don't. You have a big God-given brain.
That was an insulting statement, as we use our brains and come to different conclusions. Personally, I believe in reincarnation, and think the Christians are wrong to believe anything will make them better than they are, unless they chose to become enlightened and better people. I mean sinners on earth will be sinners in heaven, because there is nothing that will take their free will away and change them into better beings. Please, the Christians I have known, expecting heaven, have been as faulted as any other human being, while believing heaven is perfection. You can't fill heaven with imperfect people and have perfection, and nothing outside a person, makes a person perfect.

[quote]Decide to do what you want to do. No Christian NEEDS to defend the Bible's capability to convert you. [QUOTE/] then they will stop trying to convert people? :)

[quote] It's scientifically wrong because, in a mutually exclusive sense, science doesn't believe in gods.....[/QUOTE/] How does the logic of that sentence work? Are you saying the universe revolves around the earth? How about the soul is in the blood? And speaking of blood, why were those sacrifices necessary and why do we no longer have to follow God's comments? And how about Satan and the demons? Have you counted many demons flying out of people's bodies lately? All this stuff is true, but it isn't scientific because science doesn't believe in gods? Whose science is that? There are scientist who do believe in God, and Cicero and Jefferson thought knowledge was essential, and that this knowledge comes from studying nature not religions. To clarify, there is a belief that, to know God we must study nature. Sorry, but you are speaking like a Christian who doesn't know about beliefs, not like one who is well informed.

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don't necessarily think the Bible's contradicting just confusing.Neither can Christians.You somehow make the assumption that someone that deviates from the morals of the religion, represents the religion.....Wow
Ah, I think someone who claims to be Christian represents Christianity. Someone who claims to be Jewish, represents Judaism, and someone who claims to be Muslim represents Islam. I think, they all think they are better than the rest of humanity, because they believe their religion makes them better, and everyone who is not one of these religions, does not believe the religion makes anyone of religion a better person. I see the problem as, what these religious people believe, not that the rest of us don't believe their religion makes them better than everyone else.
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Old Nov 5, 2007, 01:08 am   #48 (permalink) (top)
Athena
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That comment shows your own ignorance.

Your basically asking for evidence for god when you very well no there is no direct phyical evidence.
The universe is evidence of God. The universe is ordered and this is evidence of God. To know God is to study nature, and this is completely different from studying a holy book with the belief that handed down myths created in ignorance, are good information about God. Cicero and Jefferson would both say, you got to check out what you believe, before you can be confident in what you know. That is using your own experience to check out truth, as opposed to accepting it on faith. To know God is to study nature.

In answer to the question of why hold this God exist? There are many reasons for this. An important reason to acknowledge the existance of God is, we do not know everything, and God is the X factor. We learn far more when we begin with the idea that we don't know much, than if we begin with the idea that we already know all we need to know. We need that X factor.

People who believe they can know absolute truth and "God's will" and absolutely dangerous. On the other hand, with reason we can have good moral judgement. This moral judgement rest in the belief of cause and effect. This is a belief in universe laws. Reason, is the controlling force of the universe, and all this is what democracy is about. Our liberty depends on it. Our liberty depends on believing that if we make bad choices, bad things will happen, and if we make good choices, good things will happen, and this is so no matter what. Our prays and rituals can not change the law of cause and effect, and even if we think we got away with something, the karma is in motion.
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Old Nov 5, 2007, 12:44 pm   #49 (permalink) (top)
bigdeeno
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In responce to #1.
Did any of these other "messiahs" fulfill 61 different prophecies during their lives? Or did they match one or two?
Part of the problem is that you do not have the Holy Spirit in you help you understand what the Bible is trying to tell you.
Would you be willing to try this? Ask God to prove himself to you. All you need to do is ask. And then accept the results whichever way they go. But be honest with yourself when things start happening. Then tell me God does not exist.
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Old Nov 5, 2007, 12:49 pm   #50 (permalink) (top)
bigdeeno
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Quote by Lullaby:

Quote by: Chimera
I know a lot of people that agree with me, but I have met some that don't. You have a big God-given brain. Decide to do what you want to do. No Christian NEEDS to defend the Bible's capability to convert you.

Actually.. yes, yes they do.

No man can prove God to you. Ask God to prove himself...he will be faithful.
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Old Nov 5, 2007, 12:53 pm   #51 (permalink) (top)
Lullaby Chainer
 
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bigdeeno, I have spent a large majority of my life searching for God with an open heart. He did not answer, and to be honest, he's doing a hell of a good job making sure I don't believe.

Also, this isn't the place to preach.


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Old Nov 5, 2007, 12:55 pm   #52 (permalink) (top)
Jack_Sparrow
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Quote by: Lullaby Chainer
Chimera, like I F*(KING SAID BEFORE.

Do NOT post on this thread if you don't have the decency to support your claims.

Do NOT post on this thread if you don't have the decency to support your claims.

Do NOT post on this thread if you don't have the decency to support your claims.

Do NOT post on this thread if you don't have the decency to support your claims.

Got that?

One more time!

Do NOT post on this thread if you don't have the decency to support your claims.

GTFO of my thread or grow a pair and support your claims.
I agree. But unless you behave with civility you don't belong in a debate forum. You have no right to talk to other posters like that


This is either madness... or brilliance
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Old Nov 5, 2007, 01:27 pm   #53 (permalink) (top)
tivodan1116
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There simply is no God
Why I lack belief in God.

These two sentences are not the same thing.


Your 8 points address only certain aspects of the Christian "God" of "The Bible".

I think the followers of the thousands of other religions on earth might take some exception to your assertion that disproving a few small aspects of one religious text of one limited religion equals disproving God.


"But it wasn't until he met his beautiful wife that he learned using logic and reason isn't enough. You have to be a dick to everyone who doesn't think like you." - South Park on Richard Dawkins
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Old Nov 5, 2007, 02:13 pm   #54 (permalink) (top)
Foxfyre
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Quote by: Lullaby Chainer View Post
Why I lack belief in God.

1.There are dozens of pre-Christian gods and messiahs that were born on December 25th, of a virgin, who had 12 disciples, performed miracles such as healing the sick and walking on water, crucified and resurrected three days later, and are known, by their inventors and followers, as such things like the Lamb of God and the King of Kings. Jesus is the most recent of a long list of plagiarized gods and holds no credibility. In fact, the entire Christian myth is taken directly from Egyptian myth. For instance, the 10 commandments are from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. The founders of Christianity acknowledged this but offered that Satan crafted the Pagan world to discredit Jesus. This explanation is still held by many religious leaders today.
Since you have been rather vigorously adament that other members support their opinions re Christianity/faith/religion, perhaps you would care to support this statement with some credible evidence from a reputable scholar on comparative religions rather than from some posted fuzzy 'facts' made by somebody who wants to believe this? You might start with actually looking up how many of the various Chrisitan traditions believe Jesus was born on December 25. Hint: there will be darn few if any.

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2.Out of the 40 historians or so that lived during or soon after the supposed life of Jesus, none of them document any Jesus figure. It is ludicrous to think that a man who did all of the things ascribed to Jesus in the Bible would go completely undocumented by the many historians of the time. The Bible itself was written decades after the supposed life of Jesus.
Here's another one I suggest you support with a authoritative source as I'm not sure, but I think I can come up with a dozen or nearly a dozen non-Christian sources who clearly or almost certainly mentioned Jesus of Nazareth.

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3.The Christian justice system is a barbaric, idiotic, and ridiculous bifurcated mess of extreme bias and lop-sided foundations. Christianity takes crimes as despicable as murder, rape, cruelty, genocide, and so forth and deems them forgivable by an act as trivial as accepting Jesus as your savior. What moral foundations are there that back up the forgiveness of horrible deeds by simply accepting something that, demonstratively, does no statistical good at reversing these evil behaviors.
Support for the opinion please? I suggest you also report the differences in opinions of "Christian justice" as demonstrated and practiced among the many different traditions within Christianity.

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4.Furthermore, on the topic of a deranged justice system, the Bible condemns those who want to believe in God, but can't, with Hell. Many atheists and deists would love to believe the Christian story, and even attempt so regularly, but reason, logic, science, and rationality enslave them from believing in nonsense. The crime of intellectual honesty harms no one, but the Bible sees it worthy of eternal punishment. In fact, if I may ask, what finite sin is deserving of infinite punishment? Any sin that leads others to Hell is not a reasonable example of a sin deserving of Hell because that, in logic, is circular. The conclusion of the argument is assumed in the premise.
Are you presuming that all Christians are teaching this particular doctrine? Would you care to back that up with some evidence? The same Bible that talks of hell also talks of peace, love, justice, compassion, forgiveness, atonement, and a God who would take on human form to demonstrate these very attributes as well as eternal life offered to all. Seems to me intellectual honesty would require acknowledgment of this.

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5.No Christian has been able to sensibly defend why the means of enlightenment, the story of Jesus, is so poor of a method of conversion that the room for conflict is not only vast, but invited. A test of faith is not an acceptable answer. There is no test of faith worth the infinite damnation of billions.
Support for your convictions here please. You have told other members who could not support their opinions to not post here. I presume you are a fair-minded individual who applies your edicts to yourself?

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6.No Christian has been able to sensibly defend why the Bible is completely scientifically wrong as well as logically contradicting. This problem leads millions away from the Christian god, and once again, a test of faith is not an acceptable answer. There is no test of faith worth the infinite damnation of billions.
While I have not tried to defend why the Bible is completely scientifically wrong, as I believe nobody can prove that--you are certainly invited to try--I presume that you will acknowledge that billions of people over the last 2000 years or so have not been driven away from the Christian God. I suspect most were not quite as intolerant and uninformed as your rant against the sins of Christianity here. But again, support for your statement?

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7.I can't worship a God that supports slavery or the stoning of children.
Me either. And Jesus directed some of his harshest condemnation at those who would mislead or harm children and one of our most beloved Christmas hymns quotes the Biblical image of "chains shall He break".

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8.Christianity, and religion in general, is a proven cancer to society. It has been shown that the more secular nations, in general, experience far less rates of violence and are more charitable in that they give more foreign aid to struggling countries. Atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 8-16%) are disproportionately less numerous in the prison population (0.21%). Why would the holy works of a perfect being be so ineffective if not hazardous?
Oh a proven cancer to society. Goody. At last something is proved. Finally we will get some scientific evidence. I eagerly await it. And I of course also want some evidence that secular nations are less violent and more charitable than are Christian nations and there are fewer Atheists in prison than people of faith. I will tell you in advance, however, that I don't accept evidence from anti-religion/anti-Christian sites but will expect statistics it is obvious that somebody didn't make up.

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Look me in the eye and tell me.. "you deserve Hell."
Technically, probably everybody deserves hell since we have all done things that are despicable and which have hurt people and that we cannot take back. It has been my observation that some people are so hateful they would even attempt to destroy the faith of believers who find strength, hope, and comfort in that faith. Of all religions, however, Christianity is probably among the most obvious in that it does offer unconditional forgiveness for the worst of sins that many other religions would use to consign somebody to hell. In fact, one of the cornerstones of Christian teachings is that Christians are commanded to forgive.

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You must be addressing at least one of the above 8 when posting in this thread. No going off-topic.
So how did I do? I tried very hard to stay on topic. I trust that you will apply the same rules you have made for others here to yourself.


" I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1776

Last edited by Foxfyre; Nov 5, 2007 at 02:44 pm.
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Old Nov 5, 2007, 05:32 pm   #55 (permalink) (top)
Lullaby Chainer
 
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Quote by: Foxfyre View Post
Since you have been rather vigorously adament that other members support their opinions re Christianity/faith/religion, perhaps you would care to support this statement with some credible evidence from a reputable scholar on comparative religions rather than from some posted fuzzy 'facts' made by somebody who wants to believe this? You might start with actually looking up how many of the various Chrisitan traditions believe Jesus was born on December 25. Hint: there will be darn few if any.
Not a problem..

horus - Google Search

mithra - Google Search

dionysus - Google Search

krishna - Google Search

That should get you started. This isn't a "conspiracy theory".. any material on any of those gods say what I've been saying.

Quote:
Quote by: Foxfyre
Here's another one I suggest you support with a authoritative source as I'm not sure, but I think I can come up with a dozen or nearly a dozen non-Christian sources who clearly or almost certainly mentioned Jesus of Nazareth.
You apparently didn't read correctly. No historian of the time period or soon after mentioned a Jesus figure. All accounts come decades after.

Jo Ann H. Moran Cruz and Richard Gerberding, Medieval Worlds: An Introduction to European History Houghton Mifflin Company 2004, pp. 44-45


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Quote by: Foxfyre
Support for the opinion please? I suggest you also report the differences in opinions of "Christian justice" as demonstrated and practiced among the many different traditions within Christianity.
My opinion is that forgiving horrible deeds by simply accepting Jesus as your savior is insane. What support do you want for that?

Supporting facts that accepting Jesus as your savior seems to do very little.
IHS :: HNN :: God would be an atheist: Why can't we all be Japanese?
Quote:
Drawing on a wide range of studies to cross-match faith – measured by belief in God and acceptance of evolution – with homicide and sexual behavior, Paul found that secular societies have lower rates of violence and teenage pregnancy than societies where many people profess belief in God.

Top of the class, in both atheism and good behavior, come the Japanese. Over eighty percent accept evolution and fewer than ten percent are certain that God exists. Despite its size – over a hundred million people – Japan is one of the least crime-prone countries in the world. It also has the lowest rates of teenage pregnancy of any developed nation.

(Teenage pregnancy has less tragic consequences than violence but it is usually unwanted, and it is frequently associated with deprivation among both mothers and children. In general, it is a Bad Thing.)

Next in line are the Norwegians, British, Germans and Dutch. At least sixty percent accept evolution as a fact and fewer than one in three are convinced that there is a deity. There is little teenage pregnancy , although the Brits, with over 40 pregnancies per 1,000 girls a year, do twice as badly as the others. Homicide rates are also low -- around 1-2 victims per 100,000 people a year.

At the other end of the scale comes America. Over 50 percent of Americans believe in God, and only 40 percent accept some form of evolution (many believe it had a helping hand from the Deity). The U.S. has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and homicide rates are at least five times greater than in Europe and ten times higher than in Japan.
More here.
Journal of Religion and Society

Countries with high levels of atheism also are the most charitable in terms of giving foreign aid to the developing world.
US and Foreign Aid Assistance - Global Issues

Atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 8-16%) are disproportionately less numerous in the prison population (0.21%).
The results of the Christians vs atheists in prison investigation.

Quote:
Quote by: Foxfyre
Are you presuming that all Christians are teaching this particular doctrine? Would you care to back that up with some evidence?


Sure..

* LUKE 12:10, "And everyone that says a word against the Son of Man, that will be forgiven; But he that blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven
* . MARK 3:29, "Whoever blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of everlasting sin."
* MATTHEW 12: 31-32 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".

Quote:
Quote by: Foxfyre
The same Bible that talks of hell also talks of peace, love, justice, compassion, forgiveness, atonement, and a God who would take on human form to demonstrate these very attributes as well as eternal life offered to all. Seems to me intellectual honesty would require acknowledgment of this.
That doesn't excuse the cruelty in the Bible. All it shows is that the Bible is confused and contradicting.


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Old Nov 5, 2007, 05:32 pm   #56 (permalink) (top)
Lullaby Chainer
 
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Support for your convictions here please. You have told other members who could not support their opinions to not post here. I presume you are a fair-minded individual who applies your edicts to yourself?
Don't be foolish. I sincerely hope you know there is religious conflict in the world. This would indubitably be lessened if the means of enlightenment from God were more convincing to all.

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While I have not tried to defend why the Bible is completely scientifically wrong, as I believe nobody can prove that--you are certainly invited to try--I presume that you will acknowledge that billions of people over the last 2000 years or so have not been driven away from the Christian God. I suspect most were not quite as intolerant and uninformed as your rant against the sins of Christianity here. But again, support for your statement?
The earth is not 6,000 or even 10,000 years old.
YouTube - Why Young Earth Creationists are WRONG
YouTube - Why Young Earth Creationists are WRONG, Part II

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[b]Me either.
Neither*

and yet you are.

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Oh a proven cancer to society. Goody. At last something is proved. Finally we will get some scientific evidence. I eagerly await it. And I of course also want some evidence that secular nations are less violent and more charitable than are Christian nations and there are fewer Atheists in prison than people of faith. I will tell you in advance, however, that I don't accept evidence from anti-religion/anti-Christian sites but will expect statistics it is obvious that somebody didn't make up.
IHS :: HNN :: God would be an atheist: Why can't we all be Japanese?
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Drawing on a wide range of studies to cross-match faith – measured by belief in God and acceptance of evolution – with homicide and sexual behavior, Paul found that secular societies have lower rates of violence and teenage pregnancy than societies where many people profess belief in God.

Top of the class, in both atheism and good behavior, come the Japanese. Over eighty percent accept evolution and fewer than ten percent are certain that God exists. Despite its size – over a hundred million people – Japan is one of the least crime-prone countries in the world. It also has the lowest rates of teenage pregnancy of any developed nation.

(Teenage pregnancy has less tragic consequences than violence but it is usually unwanted, and it is frequently associated with deprivation among both mothers and children. In general, it is a Bad Thing.)

Next in line are the Norwegians, British, Germans and Dutch. At least sixty percent accept evolution as a fact and fewer than one in three are convinced that there is a deity. There is little teenage pregnancy , although the Brits, with over 40 pregnancies per 1,000 girls a year, do twice as badly as the others. Homicide rates are also low -- around 1-2 victims per 100,000 people a year.

At the other end of the scale comes America. Over 50 percent of Americans believe in God, and only 40 percent accept some form of evolution (many believe it had a helping hand from the Deity). The U.S. has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and homicide rates are at least five times greater than in Europe and ten times higher than in Japan.
More here.
Journal of Religion and Society

Countries with high levels of atheism also are the most charitable in terms of giving foreign aid to the developing world.
US and Foreign Aid Assistance - Global Issues

Atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 8-16%) are disproportionately less numerous in the prison population (0.21%).
The results of the Christians vs atheists in prison investigation.


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[b]Technically, probably everybody deserves hell since we have all done things that are despicable and which have hurt people and that we cannot take back.
Weigh out what anyone can do on earth to eternal suffering in Hell.

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So how did I do? I tried very hard to stay on topic. I trust that you will apply the same rules you have made for others here to yourself.
You did good. :)


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Old Nov 5, 2007, 06:07 pm   #57 (permalink) (top)
Athena
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