Reason and Irrationality of the Universe

[butterbut]

Isn't the Universe seriously irrational in a basic sense. Why does my arm move when I tell it to move? I mean how do I tell it to move? It probally sounds crazy but I Don't Know! it just does it.

How come I can't see out of my foot? What do people born wihtout optic nerves see? Blackness? Nothing? HOW IN THE HELL can the see nothing!?

So you throw a ball at a wall... At what moment does it get there?
1 meter,... .1meter....01meter....001.....00000001.....00000000001.
Logically it never hits the wall!

Stephen King said something like its ridiculous to think that the universe is limited, but its equally ridiculous to think that it just goes on forever. How in the hell does it go on forever? Where does it end How in the hell is it limited? Whats after it? but that means it goes forever! Ahhhhh! Its all insanity.

I don't know maybe I'm crazy. Does anybody get what I'm sayin?

[triad]

Quote by: butterbut Isn't the Universe seriously irrational in a basic sense. Why does my arm move when I tell it to move?

Neurologically speaking, your arm moves because of an electric impulse sent down your nerves that control your muscles; you learn how to do this when you're born and just get better at controlling it as you get older.

How come I can't see out of my foot?

There is nothing in the anatomy of a foot that would allow you to see, there is no lens to focus light, no pupil to restrict light, no retina to decipher it, and no optic nerve to transmit that information to your brain...

What do people born wihtout optic nerves see? Blackness? Nothing? HOW IN THE HELL can the see nothing!?

You confused yourself by using the word, "see?" They don't "see", once a sense is disabled, it is no longer an attribute of what your brain is able to do.. if you are dead you don't hear silence, you just don't hear.

So you throw a ball at a wall... At what moment does it get there? 1 meter,... .1meter....01meter....001.....00000001.....00000000001. Logically it never hits the wall!

Technically it doesn't hit the wall. Right now no surface is touching any surface, there is the smallest gap between ever molecule and every atom... in the universe? I dunno, but there is a tiny gap of 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000 infinity 000000001 mm



Its fun to think about, really.

[Jack]

Good luck with figuring out a concrete answer to that. People have been debating Zeno's paradox for 2500 years.

The most famous of Zeno's Paradoxes is called The Tortoise and Achilles. The story goes that if Achilles (the famous hero from The Illiad) were to race a tortoise, but the tortoise were given a headstart, Achilles would never catch the tortoise no matter how fast or how long Achilles ran. This is of course nonsense, because common sense and observation tell us that there is no paradox here- Achilles will eventually catch up with and pass the tortoise. However, the paradox lies upon a purely mathematical inspection of this scenario. In order for Achilles to catch the tortoise, he must of course cover some distance A between where he began the race and where the reptilian racer began as well. However, in the time Achilles traversed A, the shelled shlepper traveled a second distance B. Of course Achilles is undaunted, because B is less than A, and brings himself to the point where he has gone the distance A + B. To the champion's chagrine, the tortoise has not yet given up, and in the time Achilles took to cover B, has continued to travel C. This progression can be carried out ad infinitum, and it can be shown that, mathematically speaking, there is an infinite number of time intervals and/or distances which Achilles must endure to catch his intrepid opponent. This then is where Zeno's paradox lies: both pictures of reality cannot be true at the same time. Hence, either: 1. There is something wrong with the way we perceive the continuous nature of time, 2. In reality there is no such thing as a discrete, or incremental, amounts of time, distance, or perhaps anything else for that matter, or 3. There is a third picture of reality that unifies the two pictures- the common sense or philosophical one, and the mathematical one- that we do not yet have the tools to fully understand.

Zeno's paradoxes - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[HelioPrime]

If the universe was formed from an explosion like big bang then it at some point had limits and grew from there. I guess it would be impossible for something that had an initial starting size to just never end, the force of the explosion could travel very far, but would still be limited in some vast amount.

[Jagged]

I think Zeno's paradox can be dismounted because it can easily be seen as a limit. You said "b" is always smaller than a, so as the increments of time near zero the problem never passes a found place x meters after the finish line and t seconds after the start. Imathematically... all that paradox is saying is that 1+.1+.01+... never gets to say, 5, although the series is increasing. Its like, okay whatever.

[Athena]

Quote by: triad Neurologically speaking, your arm moves because of an electric impulse sent down your nerves that control your muscles; you learn how to do this when you're born and just get better at controlling it as you get older. There is nothing in the anatomy of a foot that would allow you to see, there is no lens to focus light, no pupil to restrict light, no retina to decipher it, and no optic nerve to transmit that information to your brain... You confused yourself by using the word, "see?" They don't "see", once a sense is disabled, it is no longer an attribute of what your brain is able to do.. if you are dead you don't hear silence, you just don't hear. Technically it doesn't hit the wall. Right now no surface is touching any surface, there is the smallest gap between ever molecule and every atom... in the universe? I dunno, but there is a tiny gap of 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000 infinity 000000001 mm Its fun to think about, really.

I think you did an excellent job of making sense out of non sense.

[BionicArmofDeth]

1)Isn't the Universe seriously irrational in a basic sense.

this is a question as a statement? but seriously, just because it doesnt make sense to your perspective does it mean that it is actually so.


Why does my arm move when I tell it to move? I mean how do I tell it to move? It probally sounds crazy but I Don't Know! it just does it.

Just like saliva "just comes". Or your eyes blink. Also, your arm is a part of you. You mean "I" as being some thing seperate from your "soul".

How come I can't see out of my foot? What do people born wihtout optic nerves see? Blackness? Nothing? HOW IN THE HELL can the see nothing!?

The eye is an organ, a part of an organism, which performs a certain task, because its structure is in ideal conditions for proper function. I wonder how death "feels".

So you throw a ball at a wall... At what moment does it get there?
1 meter,... .1meter....01meter....001.....00000001.....00000000001.
Logically it never hits the wall!

The measurement of time and quantity is flawed, or limited, or misguided in certain ways. The experience of existing isnt easily precisely quantifiable by using numbers. It isnt "perfect", so to speak

Stephen King said something like its ridiculous to think that the universe is limited, but its equally ridiculous to think that it just goes on forever. How in the hell does it go on forever? Where does it end How in the hell is it limited? Whats after it? but that means it goes forever! Ahhhhh! Its all insanity.

We have barely just scratched the surface in the sharibg of ideas in order to understand the universe.

I don't know maybe I'm crazy. Does anybody get what I'm sayin?
I understand you are confusing :|

[Thanatos]

Psst...don't tell anybody but the distance between two points is not infinitely divisible. According to most theories, eventually Achilles will be one plank length from the turtle, then zero, then one ahead. Each plank length is about 10^ -20 times the diameter of a proton.

[ShOuLdEr]

Quote by: butterbut Isn't the Universe seriously irrational in a basic sense. Why does my arm move when I tell it to move? I mean how do I tell it to move? It probally sounds crazy but I Don't Know! it just does it. How come I can't see out of my foot? What do people born wihtout optic nerves see? Blackness? Nothing? HOW IN THE HELL can the see nothing!? So you throw a ball at a wall... At what moment does it get there? 1 meter,... .1meter....01meter....001.....00000001.....00000000001. Logically it never hits the wall! Stephen King said something like its ridiculous to think that the universe is limited, but its equally ridiculous to think that it just goes on forever. How in the hell does it go on forever? Where does it end How in the hell is it limited? Whats after it? but that means it goes forever! Ahhhhh! Its all insanity. I don't know maybe I'm crazy. Does anybody get what I'm sayin?

i think the quote "I live in a giant bucket" explains this all.


I don't understand how the universe is expanding. Is it expanding into more nothing? or is the universe destroying something else in its expansion. It would be neat to see what exactly it is the Universe is expanding into.

[triad]

Quote by: Thanatos Psst...don't tell anybody but the distance between two points is not infinitely divisible. According to most theories, eventually Achilles will be one plank length from the turtle, then zero, then one ahead. Each plank length is about 10^ -20 times the diameter of a proton.

You are correct!!


Show him what hes' one Johnny..

Johnny: Hes' won.. A NEW-TO-YOU captain obvious cookie!


Hehe, seriously though, some of human concepts of measurement are seriously flawed. Like the whole gap between everything I said ealier:

When you touch the tip of your two index fingers together, are they touching physically? Or is there a gap of 0.∞1 ?


Well, what about this, if you meaure the length of your finger - according to this gap theory, shouldn't your finger be infinite in length? Because isn't the smallest fraction of the very last atom infinite? Couldn't the tip of your finer be 0.0000000000000000000000000001 planks long? Or, 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 planks long?


No. It has a physical end. It is not infinite in length, therefore when two atoms touch there is not an infinite gap between them. Of course, I have no major in science, but my reasoning has contemplated this several times and I have concluded time and measurements disable concrete reality.

[Athena]

Manifestation is order. String theory suggests everything comes from chaos, and becomes the order we see. A big bang would be chaotic, but the manifestation that follows is not. The Egyptians were focused on the need for order, and it was the pharoah's duty to maintain order. Greeks adopted ideas from those around them and switched from believing gods created and controlled everything as they pleased, to believing reason, is the controlling force of the universe. Together we get the following science of universal order.

evolution of elements - Google Search Origin and Chemical Evolution of the Elements To understand the chemical evolution of the universe, we need to determine the elemental composition of the gaseous matter and its relation to cosmic epoch and physical environment. Abundances of various species are expected to vary with gas density, star-formation rate, and proximity to galaxy structures. In the very early evolution, H, He, and trace amounts of other light elements such as D and Li were created in the expanding Big Bang fireball. At later times, stars converted the gaseous products of the Big Bang into heavier elements and returned the processed elements back to the interstellar medium via stellar winds and supernova explosions. Subsequently, the metal-enriched interstellar gas was transported to the IGM by galactic outflows, gravitational interactions, and mergers of galaxies. Numerical models of IGM enrichment (Gnedin & Ostriker 1997) predict a strong dependence of metallicity on density; the highest density regions are expected to reach 0.1 solar metallicity at , while the matter in the voids remains nearly pristine. Subsequent stellar processing created new elements and slowly modified the nucleosynthetic imprint of the Big Bang. These processes of stellar element production and destruction have continued to the current epoch. A study of elemental abundances as a function of lookback time and environment provides a detailed, quantitative assessment of the history of element production and destruction.

[butterbut]

Why can I ask why to anything you say it would still make sense?

[butterbut]

Quote by: HelioPrime If the universe was formed from an explosion like big bang then it at some point had limits and grew from there. I guess it would be impossible for something that had an initial starting size to just never end, the force of the explosion could travel very far, but would still be limited in some vast amount.

If it has limits then what is after it?

[Thanatos]

Quote by: butterbut If it has limits then what is after it?

Depends on which theory you use. Perhaps its just empty space, possibly with some odd properties including extra usable dimensions. There might be other universes floating out there in this fundamental void. Perhaps there is no spacetime outside of our little bubble. If so words such as after only make sense in relation to some sort of spacetime, and so what comes after you leave spacetime has no meaning; you'd just be gone, or possibly teleported somewhere completely random. To explain this properly I'd need an obscure physics book I don't have at my current location...give me a week or two.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: butterbut If it has limits then what is after it?

If the universe is always expanding then we may never find out. Lacking the ability to travel faster than the expansion.

If the expansion slows or stops at a certain point then what could have caused that? and does that mean its going to start getting smaller?

Mostly its nothing we have to worry about, by the time the universe could shrink humans will be extinct or evolved beyond anything we know today.

[5010]

The question "why" is a wonderful word, because it is an expression of wonder. Every answer takes away that bit of wonder, but then you can ask "why" to that and restore the wonder. Since there is always another why to be asked to every explanation, the world will always be filled with wonderful things.

[Athena]

Quote by: butterbut Why can I ask why to anything you say it would still make sense?

Because our minds see order and patterns. For example if I mispell a word, you are apt to recognize the word anyway. If I leave out a word, as I often do, you will probably still get the meaning of what I am trying to say, if you interested.

If grade school children were taught to see numbers and shapes as the ancients did, as symbols of principles available to teach us about the natural structure and processes of the universe and to give us perspective on human nature, we might be the wiser for it.

[butterbut]

But whats the answer to all them why's? There can't be an answer that has any resemblance to logic can there?

[Sweet Katie]

Quote by: butterbut Isn't the Universe seriously irrational in a basic sense. Why does my arm move when I tell it to move? I mean how do I tell it to move? It probally sounds crazy but I Don't Know! it just does it. How come I can't see out of my foot? What do people born wihtout optic nerves see? Blackness? Nothing? HOW IN THE HELL can the see nothing!? So you throw a ball at a wall... At what moment does it get there? 1 meter,... .1meter....01meter....001.....00000001.....00000000001. Logically it never hits the wall! Stephen King said something like its ridiculous to think that the universe is limited, but its equally ridiculous to think that it just goes on forever. How in the hell does it go on forever? Where does it end How in the hell is it limited? Whats after it? but that means it goes forever! Ahhhhh! Its all insanity. I don't know maybe I'm crazy. Does anybody get what I'm sayin?

Undoubtedly, there are scientific answers to the questions you seek.

What tickles my fancy is how math and science in their pseudo superior of cemented logical are constantly proving themselves incorrect regarding space. It's all perfect correct until it's not right at all.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Sweet Katie Undoubtedly, there are scientific answers to the questions you seek. What tickles my fancy is how math and science in their pseudo superior of cemented logical are constantly proving themselves incorrect regarding space. It's all perfect correct until it's not right at all.

That's a beautiful thing.. science is a living organism of truth seeking power. It changes as evidence comes in. There's nothing wrong with this.