A question about Adam and Eve.

[Osborn F Enready]

Ok, so, the believers tell us Adam and Eve were the first of our "race".

Would the believers agree with that terminology?

If Adam and Eve were the first of our race, and Eve was created from Adams rib, wouldn't that mean Eve would have Adams DNA, thereby skewing the gene pool between them?

If the claim is that God intervened to prevent this genetic misfortune, where is that supported?

If God supposedly did intervene, then what about the kids? Over history we have had proven time and time again that incest breeds several forms of genetic errors, retardation, etc. How do "believers" deal with this obvious logical flaw?

Also, regarding Adam and Eve, according to the "texts", when did they live?

I would like to see how we have reached this population number, in that amount of time, and explain how the numbers don't match.

Honest questions, based in logic, that I would like to see addressed by believers, if any care to address them. logicly.

[Chimera]

Don't take it literally.....But if you did take it literally.....You ask where is the evidence that God intervened in preventing genetic malfunctions.....Well 1. The bible doesn't discuss genetics so it woldn't be there....2. The fact that it didn't happen?

Also, regarding Adam and Eve, according to the "texts", when did they live?

There aren't dates given...

[Jack]

Also, regarding Adam and Eve, according to the "texts", when did they live?

Adam was created, according to Genesis, on the 6th day. Some theologians maintain Adam was 800 years old when he died. So that would mean he lived from year 0 (or rather 1 since zero hadn't yet been invented) to year 800, minus 6 days.

[Technosoul]

Okay, one mutation that happened was the extra large head size. Which is uncommon in other animals. That could be viewed as a DNA screw up. Also, although we have hairless earthworms, it is rare for large mammals to be hairless unless they ended up like the whales.
Many humans are nearly hairless as compared to cats and dogs. (apes).

And the large head size resulted in child brithing pain and even death. Which does not seem like something that nature your pass on as evolution based on survival.

Carl Segan wrote in one of this books that the large head size is the best scientific evidence in support of the speical creation of Adam and Eve.

Now if Eve is in fact the rib of Adam then the human race began when God created her as that was like telling Adam to go screw his self (scientifically speaking). Otherwise if she is given brith out of Adam's side then she is his own daughter, suggesting that the human race was begot by the first child molester. And no one made a religion out of that biblical concept. In fact, the reverse took place.

It seems all rather distrubing.

The evolution idea is less distrubing.

[Jagged]

Additionally, the fact that Eve was "created" from Adam's rib doesn't mean she has Adam's DNA. Obviously that simply cannot be the case because she is a woman in the first place. It's not like rib-making is some sort of asexual reproduction

[nerdvincent]

Come on, it's like Athena born from the forehead of Zeus. How long did greek religion lasted? Patience...
Let suppose Eve comes from Adam's rib and even that they didn't faced the problem of inbreeding. I heard some creationist saying Genesis was 6000 years ago, and we can deduce by the holy bible that a deluge killed every living creature exept a core of every species some 4000 years ago. The inbreeding start again between Noah's childs and 1000 later we are 50,000,000 humans. What happened between 2000 and 1000 before jezz? Archeologicals and historic facts didn't mention that everybody had 120 kids each? Oh oh...

[freefallife]

Quote by: nerdvincent I heard some creationist saying Genesis was 6000 years ago, and we can deduce by the holy bible that a deluge killed every living creature exept a core of every species some 4000 years ago. The inbreeding start again between Noah's childs and 1000 later we are 50,000,000 humans. What happened between 2000 and 1000 before jezz? Archeologicals and historic facts didn't mention that everybody had 120 kids each? Oh oh...

Yes, it is quite impossible for that kind of population growth during that time period. The thing is, this argument is only good for those that follow the "young earth" worldveiw. Hell, most christians think that they're nuts. Thus we have the typical christian fallback of reinterpreting the bible... There was a time in the history of christianity that it was widely held that the earth was reletively young (they still exist today). Yet, when faced with overwhelming scientific evidence that the earth was billions of years old, all of a sudden, Genesis is just a fairy tale not to be taken literally. That's what Christians do to keep up with the truths that science uncovers, like that the earth WASN'T the center of the universe...or FLAT. The list goes on and on. If we keep this up, maybe they'll finally realize that the WHOLE bible is just a fairy tale.

[Kuldeep]

By the way what is age Bible puts for our earth...just asking out of curiousity !!!

[freefallife]

Quote by: Kuldeep By the way what is age Bible puts for our earth...just asking out of curiousity !!!

Young earth creationists assert that the earth is between 6000-10,000 years old.

The majority of christianity has "reinterpreted" Genesis to not be taken literally and thus one day was actually a billion yers or something like that.

So, you can see, it depends entirely if you go by what it SAYS or by what you THINK it says. To me, it all a load of bull.

[Kuldeep]

Yes that is true ! There could have been no days and years before the formation of earth. But once it was formed, days and years started of the same duration as at present. So 1 day equivalent to 1 billion years is not bull load but definitely bull shit to me !!!

Hiduism is putting whole thing as a enormous cycle of making and devastating eternally, which scientifically might be possible. BB ater BB etrernally !!!

[nerdvincent]

God created the earth in 6 days. How could we define a ''day'' when earth wasn't spinning?

[Kuldeep]

We are talking of age of earth after those 6 abnormal days !

[freefallife]

Quote by: nerdvincent God created the earth in 6 days. How could we define a ''day'' when earth wasn't spinning?

It's all in the translation. The hebrew word used in Genesis is "yom" has several meanings.

1. Day....as opposed to night
2. Day...as a 24 hour period.
3. A general time period
4. A year
5. A lifetime

Obviously, to conform to scientific evidence, christians claimed that the translation for the days in genesis were actually lifetimes or longer. The reason that argument fails, at least to me is this nifty reference I found:


Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions:
yôm (Strong's H3117)
1. day, time, year
a. day (as opposed to night)
b. day (24 hour period)
1. as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
2. as a division of time
a. a working day, a day’s journey

As you can see, I have a hebrew dictionary specificly stating that the days in genesis were 24 hour periods. Even better evidence is that Genesis states "and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day one." That in NO way suggests a time period of more than 24 hours, let alone hundreds or thousands of years.

[nerdvincent]

Nice decuction.
Isn't there a creationist to put a pepper taste to the debate?

[Chimera]

Yes, it is quite impossible for that kind of population growth during that time period. The thing is, this argument is only good for those that follow the "young earth" worldveiw. Hell, most christians think that they're nuts. Thus we have the typical christian fallback of reinterpreting the bible... There was a time in the history of christianity that it was widely held that the earth was reletively young (they still exist today). Yet, when faced with overwhelming scientific evidence that the earth was billions of years old, all of a sudden, Genesis is just a fairy tale not to be taken literally. That's what Christians do to keep up with the truths that science uncovers, like that the earth WASN'T the center of the universe...or FLAT. The list goes on and on. If we keep this up, maybe they'll finally realize that the WHOLE bible is just a fairy tale.

Do the same criticisms apply to the non-religious who constantly reinterpret things over time? Or do you somehow only apply that to religious people?

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: freefallife like that the earth WASN'T the center of the universe...or FLAT. The list goes on and on. If we keep this up, maybe they'll finally realize that the WHOLE bible is just a fairy tale.

Since you're such an expert on what Christians believe, please quote me the verse and scripture of the Bible that says either that the Earth is flat or that our solar system is earth-centric.

I assume you'll have no problem finding those verses since you've asserted this position numerous times and therefore have something to back that up, I mean unless of course you want to admit you're just throwing in laughable beliefs to make your argument stronger.

[nerdvincent]

That's better.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: nerdvincent That's better.

Huh? What's better?

[butterbut]

The Bible doesn't say God didn't create other people. Just that Adam and Eve were first.

[BionicArmofDeth]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Ok, so, the believers tell us Adam and Eve were the first of our "race". Would the believers agree with that terminology? If Adam and Eve were the first of our race, and Eve was created from Adams rib, wouldn't that mean Eve would have Adams DNA, thereby skewing the gene pool between them? If the claim is that God intervened to prevent this genetic misfortune, where is that supported? If God supposedly did intervene, then what about the kids? Over history we have had proven time and time again that incest breeds several forms of genetic errors, retardation, etc. How do "believers" deal with this obvious logical flaw? Also, regarding Adam and Eve, according to the "texts", when did they live? I would like to see how we have reached this population number, in that amount of time, and explain how the numbers don't match. Honest questions, based in logic, that I would like to see addressed by believers, if any care to address them. logicly.

The answer is simple: God hates fags!(if you take offense to that bad joke you need to get out more).