Jesus compared to magic gurus of today

[Lullaby Chainer]

How is Jesus any different than gurus like Sathya Sai Baba?

I don't mean literal differences, please refer to Sam Harris' phrasing in the video.

[Zhavric]

Can't see the vid from where I am, but my first thought would be the wise men probably existed, probably aren't attributed impossible acts, probably weren't invented by a group of people looking to invent a new religion, and probably don't have millions of institutionally indoctrinated followers.

That's my $0.02. We'll see how close I got when I watch the vid.

[Kuldeep]

My views are similar. I have own experience to watch a person telling one of our aquintee, my mother and myself (a boy of 13 years then)that I had been victimised by not allowing salt for about three months. Doctor had stopped my salt intake for my some kidney trouble. We went to him (saintly person) for some sort of blessings since, my condition got deteriorated day by day. Even doctor was puzlled not find out reason why medicine is not working. Rather he blamed my parents that I might be consuming salt secretly, which I did not in fact !!

Just, when we sat by his side, he immediately told that I had not been given salt for long. He directed the accomapying person go and get some saltish eatable for me. We did not tell him before anything from our side. My mother only told that I was not well and asked for his blessings. On hearing this he revealed from his side that I was not allowed to take salt for long. This is the first miracle from any living person, I have witnessed by myself !!

So, I too have feeling persons with extra ordinary powers do exist but we do have the senses to graspe their identity !!! I feel Jesus could had been one such person with extra ordinary powers !!!

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Kuldeep My views are similar. I have own experience to watch a person telling one of our aquintee, my mother and myself (a boy of 13 years then)that I had been victimised by not allowing salt for about three months. Doctor had stopped my salt intake for my some kidney trouble. We went to him (saintly person) for some sort of blessings since, my condition got deteriorated day by day. Even doctor was puzlled not find out reason why medicine is not working. Rather he blamed my parents that I might be consuming salt secretly, which I did not in fact !! Just, when we sat by his side, he immediately told that I had not been given salt for long. He directed the accomapying person go and get some saltish eatable for me. We did not tell him before anything from our side. My mother only told that I was not well and asked for his blessings. On hearing this he revealed from his side that I was not allowed to take salt for long. This is the first miracle from any living person, I have witnessed by myself !! So, I too have feeling persons with extra ordinary powers do exist but we do have the senses to graspe their identity !!! I feel Jesus could had been one such person with extra ordinary powers !!!

This is not at all what I meant..

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer How is Jesus any different than gurus like Sathya Sai Baba? I don't mean literal differences, please refer to Sam Harris' phrasing in the video.

Jesus has a bigger worldwide fanclub?

Sathya Sai Baba hasn't been put to death for any claims.

So why don't you tell the audience what were supposed to think.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer This is not at all what I meant..

Then, please clarify what exactly you mean !!

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: HelioPrime Jesus has a bigger worldwide fanclub? Sathya Sai Baba hasn't been put to death for any claims. So why don't you tell the audience what were supposed to think.

If you noticed, I said "I don't mean literal differences, please refer to Sam Harris' phrasing in the video."

Quote by: Kuldeep Then, please clarify what exactly you mean !!

I clearly told you to watch the video.. not sure how you two missed that.

[ItsDarts]

Some people may not be able to see the vid at work because of firewalls and whatnot, maybe you could paraphrase what Sam is saying? Just a thought

[Zhavric]

Quote by: HelioPrime Jesus has a bigger worldwide fanclub?

Appeal to popular opinion fallacy.

Sathya Sai Baba hasn't been put to death for any claims.

What a silly criteria? As though truth claims require death to be true.

So why don't you tell the audience what were supposed to think.

Why would we? We're not theists.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Zhavric Why would we? We're not theists.

Because thats the goal of the thread.

To take away any myths or followings and look both jesus and the guru. In that case since we you yourselves doubt the historical existance of jesus then as a fantasy jesus can be anything you believe.

So the difference would be jesus was a real miracle worker, who came at the right time. This guy may or may not be able to perform a miracle but he came when the world didn't really need a new guru.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: HelioPrime Because thats the goal of the thread.

No it's not. The goal of the thread is to persuade you to look at things in a different light and try to reason out why Jesus is false by yourself. Dogmatically convincing people of what's what (often before they're old enough to enter the 1st grade) is the province of theism.

To take away any myths or followings and look both jesus and the guru. In that case since we you yourselves doubt the historical existance of jesus then as a fantasy jesus can be anything you believe.

What a silly idea? Jesus cannot be "anything I believe". Why do you insist on changing all the rules for Jesus / Christianity? You really must knock off this intellectual dishonesty.

Superman's not real. Can he be an old black woman from Detroit named Selma who's not a super hero? Of course not. Superman, like Jesus, isn't real, but has specific agreed upon qualities that make him Superman.

So the difference would be jesus was a real miracle worker, who came at the right time. This guy may or may not be able to perform a miracle but he came when the world didn't really need a new guru.

This is invalid reasoning meaning your conclusion does not flow from your premises. Either you did this unintentionally or you're tripping over a straw man argument. Either way, it's nonsense. We know Jesus wasn't real. We know he didn't perform any miracles. Our "need" for guru's means nothing when dealing with the idea of whether or not their claims are true or if they actually exist.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Zhavric What a silly idea? Jesus cannot be "anything I believe". Why do you insist on changing all the rules for Jesus / Christianity? You really must knock off this intellectual dishonesty. Superman's not real. Can he be an old black woman from Detroit named Selma who's not a super hero? Of course not. Superman, like Jesus, isn't real, but has specific agreed upon qualities that make him Superman.

Lacking knowledge of my beliefs or most other peoples your the one making the straw man arguement here. Declaring that christians must believe in a set and exact defined system.

Quote by: Zhavric This is invalid reasoning meaning your conclusion does not flow from your premises. Either you did this unintentionally or you're tripping over a straw man argument. Either way, it's nonsense. We know Jesus wasn't real. We know he didn't perform any miracles. Our "need" for guru's means nothing when dealing with the idea of whether or not their claims are true or if they actually exist.

Red herring. Your just bring your own self proclaimed victory threads into here.

[triad]

Quote by: HelioPrime So if jesus wasn't real then whats the need for the thread? Oh right, more pat on the back logic from you. Sam Harris offers little more than insulting mockery, not really a "oh gosh I never thought of it that way view" Christianity became a worldwide religion, this guru here has not created that kind of following.

So truth is a popularity contest? More people believe in jesus so he is a more valid idea? Pfff, lots of people know who batman is and have read about him - some kids probably believe he is real - so does that make him a logical theory of existing?:confused:

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: triad So truth is a popularity contest? More people believe in jesus so he is a more valid idea? Pfff, lots of people know who batman is and have read about him - some kids probably believe he is real - so does that make him a logical theory of existing?:confused:

I edited what I posted. Not really worth the effort with some people.

I would ask why does something have to be logical and have visible evidence for you to believe in it.

[J. Askiloupos]

Pfff, lots of people know who batman is and have read about him - some kids probably believe he is real - so does that make him a logical theory of existing?

Batman's not *sniffles* REAL? *runs away, bawling*

[triad]

Quote by: HelioPrime I edited what I posted. Not really worth the effort with some people. I would ask why does something have to be logical and have visible evidence for you to believe in it.

Easy: If I believed everything that wasn't logical and didn't have evidence, I would believe a lot of stupid shit out there. Criss Angel claims he is the antichrist, thats not logical and the only evidence is his staged show... why would I believe it?

You lost me here, Helio, your logic is - something doesn't have to be logical or have evidence to "believe" it, so where do you draw the line on where to believe something and where to not? What does something have to lack in order for it to not earn your belief? I could think up anything right now, and according to you, you'd believe it just because I said I do. ???

Quote by: J. Askiloupos Batman's not *sniffles* REAL? *runs away, bawling*

ROFL

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: triad You lost me here, Helio, your logic is - something doesn't have to be logical or have evidence to "believe" it, so where do you draw the line on where to believe something and where to not? What does something have to lack in order for it to not earn your belief? I could think up anything right now, and according to you, you'd believe it just because I said I do. ???

Because I said so. The best reason right?

A chrisitan believes that jesus died and was ressurected 3 days later.

Science says that impossible.

Hence the problem, does something have to have evidence to be considered possible?

[triad]

Quote by: HelioPrime Because I said so. The best reason right? A chrisitan believes that jesus died and was ressurected 3 days later. Science says that impossible. Hence the problem, does something have to have evidence to be considered possible?

If over thousands of years people have just gone on theories and prophecies and ideas and what not, then I consider it a myth and nothing more. A MYTH, Helio, a MYTH. Just a story. I dont consider it possible. Period. If you do then that is fine.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: triad If over thousands of years people have just gone on theories and prophecies and ideas and what not, then I consider it a myth and nothing more. A MYTH, Helio, a MYTH. Just a story. I dont consider it possible. Period. If you do then that is fine.

I have no problem if you don't consider things possible. I do have a problem when people try to tell me I should think its also not possible.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: ItsDarts Some people may not be able to see the vid at work because of firewalls and whatnot, maybe you could paraphrase what Sam is saying? Just a thought

Yeah, I've been meaning to.. just haven't had the time. I will in a few minutes.