Nazi Religion

[grandpa]

Nazis worshiped nationalism. In fact, nationalism virtually always leads to some "Nazi" mentalities. I grudgingly say "virtually," because I don't offhand know any exceptions.

Grandpa h.

[freefallife]

Quote by: ruksak Hitler was not a Christian. The article you posted was meant only to counter assertions that Atheist leaders are responsible for the greatest atrocities ever to occur. Christians and Atheist have had this arguement for quite some time.

Are you going to actually show SUPPORT for that claim, or should the world just take your word for it??

[notworthabean]

Quote by: grandpa Nazis worshiped nationalism. In fact, nationalism virtually always leads to some "Nazi" mentalities. I grudgingly say "virtually," because I don't offhand know any exceptions. Grandpa h.

Um most nationalist movements haven't been nazi like.

[Athena]

Quote by: ruksak Hitler was not a Christian. The article you posted was meant only to counter assertions that Atheist leaders are responsible for the greatest atrocities ever to occur. Christians and Atheist have had this arguement for quite some time.

Hitler was Christian. There are several google sites explaining this with a sense of historical importance.

Adolf Hitler — Religion: See section(s) Below According to Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia "Hitler's Religion," by Anne Nicol GaylorBiographer John Toland wrote of Hitler's religion: "Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy, ... ffrf.org/fttoday/back/hitler.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages The Religion of HitlerHitler was a Christian, not an atheist as the Christians would like everyone to believe. The Religion of Hitler - 13k - Cached - Similar pages Hitler's ReligionAn Associated Press news article on Adolf Hitler's denunciation of atheism. Hitler's Religion - 9k - Cached - Similar pages Adolf HitlerBut in fact, Germany was Hitler's religion. Though far from an atheist, Hitler was a Roman Catholic apostate. He at times would say things such as, ... Adolf Hitler - 8k - Cached - Similar pages Creationism versus ScienceHitler's Religion. Background. Postwar Christian apologists have put .... 7 (affirming that Hitler's only real problem with his childhood religion was the ... Creationism versus Science - 58k - Cached - Similar pages

More important than Hitler's beliefs, were the beliefs of Germans in general. Very important to what happened in Germany was the teachings of Martin Luther, the man credited with starting the Protestant Reformation. Hitler could not have done what he did without popular consent, and the mind set of US citizens today, is not that far from the mind set of Germany, with both countries believing in their national superiiortiy and belief they are doing the will of God.

[ruksak]

Quote by: freefallife Are you going to actually show SUPPORT for that claim, or should the world just take your word for it??

He shed himself of any Christianity. How you cannot understand this is beyond me. You want me to "prove" it? Thats laughable. Its not my job to give to an extended history lesson.

Quote by: Athena Hitler could not have done what he did without popular consent, and the mind set of US citizens today, is not that far from the mind set of Germany, with both countries believing in their national superiority and belief they are doing the will of God.

Right there you expose your motivation for making such claims. Every sight you posted is an EXTREMELY biased atheist non-secular source. You speak from an Atheist anti-American stance, that is why you think Hitler is Christian. As an agnostic, I can see through the mists.

He used Christianity and the church as a tool. He manipulated the people with it.

Quote by: Hitler "Christianity is an invention of sick brains," Adolf Hitler, 13 December 1941.

Quote by: Hitler "So it's not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death," Adolf Hitler, 14 October 1941.

Quote by: Hitler 11th-12th July, 1941 "National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... "The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... "Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things."

10th October, 1941, "Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."

19th October, 1941, "The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

If you look, you can find many many more blatant examples of Hitlers swing from apparent Christian to a Nationalist genocidal maniac. Its easy to find Christian sounding quotes from Hitler, pre-1941. When he was still establishing the church as a tool to manipulate the people.

Find me some "Christian" quotes from him post 1941. They don't exist.

I have long listened to this ridiculous fight between Atheist and Christians. Is he Christian.......or is he Atheist. HE WAS NEITHER!

[rez]

Quote by: ruksak He shed himself of any Christianity. How you cannot understand this is beyond me. You want me to "prove" it? Thats laughable. Its not my job to give to an extended history lesson.

It is your job to support your claims, so nobody here thinks you are loony.

Right there you expose your motivation for making such claims.

Hitler could be anything and it still would not negate the fact that he used people's irrational beliefs against them.

Every sight you posted is an EXTREMELY biased atheist non-secular source. You speak from an Atheist anti-American stance, that is why you think Hitler is Christian. As an agnostic, I can see through the mists.

As an agnostic you are misinformed as to even understand the difference between belief and knowledge, but since this isn't a lesson on what atheism is, then perhaps I should let it go. However, you did post a couple of quotes (without links mind you), so I took it upon why self to see where they came from.

And it came from...drum roll please...

someone who is Christian

"I am Roman Catholic by birth and by faith. This section of the website is primarily about Catholic Apologetics, a defence of Catholic Christianity."

So please say sorry to Athena.

He used Christianity and the church as a tool. He manipulated the people with it.

This doesn't really support the theists who completely deny that Hitler used Christianity to further his agenda.

If you look, you can find many many more blatant examples of Hitlers swing from apparent Christian to a Nationalist genocidal maniac. Its easy to find Christian sounding quotes from Hitler, pre-1941. When he was still establishing the church as a tool to manipulate the people. Find me some "Christian" quotes from him post 1941. They don't exist. I have long listened to this ridiculous fight between Atheist and Christians. Is he Christian.......or is he Atheist. HE WAS NEITHER!

First off you used quotes by Hitler that were said in private. So your supporting evidence is not as good as to what he said in public that could be heard by many people.

Second off you didnt even link where you got those quotes because you knew it was just as biased as the source Athena gave. That is dishonest, so I now know you are capable of making future dishonest arguments.

And even if he was neither, it still does not negate the fact that theists are sheep that can't think for themselves (which is the point of suggesting that Hitler was a Christian)

[loser]

Let's see:

1) Christians love Jesus.
2) Jesus was a Jew.
3) Therefore, Christians love Jews.
4) Hitler hated Jews.
5) Therefore (using simple logic), Hitler was not a Christian.

In fact, for all of you anti-Semites out there, if you hate Jews then you are not a Christian. Of course, to be perfectly honest (as Christians always are), if you hate any people of any class or race or status for any reason or purpose, then you are not a Christian.

Christians are better than everybody else...so they should act like it.

[Mia]

You'll know you've made God in your own image, when He hates everyone you do. ;-)

[phoenix_fire]

Well, I've made the argument before in another thread, but it bears reiterating. The Germans who followed Hitler were also desperate. They were hungry. They were ravaged by the economic fallout of the first World War. Hitler gave them a way out. And he gave them just enough religious assurance to enable them to do what they did with a clear conscience. And to do that, he had to twist, alter, gut and cannibalize real Christianity in order to make it work for him. Because if he had used and strongly emphasized pure Christianity, it would have borne witness against his actions.

[Jack_Sparrow]

How about this: "The 'german arm' of Christianity performed acts of evil and were involved with the nazis as a response to poverty, hunger, and economic depression"

Right on average?

[grandpa]

Quote by: notworthabean Um most nationalist movements haven't been nazi like.

Really? Please elaborate. A casual glimpse into history tells a pretty different story.

Grandpa h.

[Thanatos]

Quote by: loser Let's see: 1) Christians love Jesus. 2) Jesus was a Jew. 3) Therefore, Christians love Jews. 4) Hitler hated Jews. 5) Therefore (using simple logic), Hitler was not a Christian. In fact, for all of you anti-Semites out there, if you hate Jews then you are not a Christian. Of course, to be perfectly honest (as Christians always are), if you hate any people of any class or race or status for any reason or purpose, then you are not a Christian. Christians are better than everybody else...so they should act like it.

Being Christian and ignorant of your own Bible aren't mutually exclusive. You can't really follow the whole thing anyway; the parts about being nice conflict with all the petty tribal hatreds and God slaughtering whole races.

[Jack_Sparrow]

It seems like we all just need to agree on what makes a human a 'christian', then we can tackle wether or not Hitler and the nazis were.

How about:
(1)christian faith
(2)obediance to christian rules

[Chris the Chees]

Nazi Germany and the Nazi party were predominantly Christian; the issue of whether Hitler himself was still Christian by the time he came to power (something that is difficult to judge considering his consistent contradictory statements on the matter) is a red-herring, even if he was not he certainly supported the idea that Christianity was the faith of the Reich and was to be preserved as the state religion. Indeed Christians realised this, and the most vocal support for the Nazi party came from the right-wing evangelical communities of the small towns. On Hitler’s birthday in 1933, the Bavarian protestant church ordered flags be flown from all their buildings. Many Protestant clergy took to wearing SA and SS uniforms when they preached and holding special services to dedicate Nazi flags and emblems.

Indeed by this stage German Protestantism and German nationalism had reached a form of symbiosis; one that not just appealed to the Nazi's but one that became an integral part of the Nazi ideology.

For more information read Richard J. Evans, The Third Reich in Power, (St Ives, 2005), pp. 220-233.

In addition, due to the nature of the Nazi ideal of 'volksgemeinschaft', the Nazi's envisioned a united German christianity; as opposed to the Protestant/Catholic split (6:4) that had divided the German states, and then Germany, for centuries. So quite how, when this idea of a united Christianity is well know and accepted as a major part of the Nazi ideology, people can conclude that the Nazi ideology was athiest is beyond me. So the charge that the Nazi ideology was an atheist one is nothing more than a myth. The Nazi ideology is clearly a Christian one.

Quote by: Ruksak He shed himself of any Christianity. How you cannot understand this is beyond me. You want me to "prove" it? Thats laughable. Its not my job to give to an extended history lesson.

Really? Well I am a post-graduate history student and in my years of university level study of history, much of which has been on the Third Reich, I have never seen any serious historian proclaim that Hitler 'shed himself of any Christianity'. And yes it is your job, if you make a claim you substanciate it or it is liable to be dismissed.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Chris the Chees Nazi Germany and the Nazi party were predominantly Christian; the issue of whether Hitler himself was still Christian by the time he came to power (something that is difficult to judge considering his consistent contradictory statements on the matter) is a red-herring, even if he was not he certainly supported the idea that Christianity was the faith of the Reich and was to be preserved as the state religion. Indeed Christians realised this, and the most vocal support for the Nazi party came from the right-wing evangelical communities of the small towns.

Hitler did make references to Christianity to bolster his fanbase.

For example, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922, he said:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited."

Nazi Germany expressed in policy some other basic Christian ideas, such as how a homosexual is an abomination. And, quite obviously, the idea that "Germanic" people were put here to be stewards of the earth and to weed out the weaklings and sinners. Hypocisy is implied in such an understanding of the world, as is devastation. Most dictators seem to use religious-like rhetoric about being a "chosen people" of some kind, as do many right-wing Christian cults (see, for example, my recent thread on the Christians for Israel tour).

Grandpa h.

[Chris the Chees]

Hitler did make references to Christianity to bolster his fanbase.

Indeed he did, just read mein Kampf. however, others testify to his pro-Christian sentiments when he was in private, individuals such as Speer.

However a great deal of his supposed anti-Christian sentiment is from a book called 'Hitler Speaks', which has sinse turned out to be largely the plagiarised statements of Guy de Maupasant, and 'table talk' is also highly suspected by historians thus comments such as "Christianity is an invention of sick brains..." are entirely unreliable and more than likely not statements by Hitler. Hugh Trevor-Roper was likely duped twice.

[Jack_Sparrow]

Thanks alot chris, good to have an expert on-board

[loser]

According to most accounts, Hitler's ethnicity is in question. Even his last name (birth father) is uncertain. What is known is that his nationality was Austrian (like the governor of California, Arnold S.). There is some contention that Hitler was even Jewish! Hard to really know.

Christian: Like most labels and stereotypes, it is relatively meaningless. The only universal standard that might apply would be the belief that Jesus was/is/will be the Son of God and/or the Messiah/Christ Savior of the world (or a select portion thereof). From there, the murkiness increases exponentially.

Since diversity (variation, discrepancy) is a given quality of life, absolute statements are generally incorrect. It is false to make assertions like "atheists are idiots" or "Pygmies are hot" or "Hitler was a Christian". Some atheists may be idiots but not all (maybe). Some pygmies may be hot...to some people (possibly). Hitler might have been a Christian (by some standards and some definitions, but not all). All blacks do not like watermelon and collard greens anymore than all Frenchmen are sexy superstuds (like moi). There are bound to be exceptions (in fact, I think that I am one of a kind).

So, it really doesn't matter if Hitler called himself a Christian or not nor does it matter what label we may put on him. He was, like all of us, a unique individual whose fingerprints made him one of a kind. He may have been raised a Catholic but that fact is irrelevant.

As the French say, "Viva la difference!".

And to do that, he had to twist, alter, gut and cannibalize real Christianity in order to make it work for him.

Hitler hated the Book of Esther (it chronicles the salvation of the Jewish race and the death of the Hitler-like Haman). I have heard it said (but could find no references) that Hitler had the book removed from the Bible (much like Martin Luther's tearing out of his Bible the Book of James). Ironically, it's the only book in the Bible where God is never mentioned.

How about this: "The 'german arm' of Christianity performed acts of evil and were involved with the nazis as a response to poverty, hunger, and economic depression" Right on average?

Sounds about right to me. Since early Christianity decried usury as ungodly (prohibited by scripture), the Jews developed a banking monopoly and soon these money-lenders controlled much of the wealth in Europe. Their financial success during the tumultuous and poverty-stricken times of Hitler's Germany played a big role in the envy-driven hatred of these people.

Like all madmen, Hitler's words and actions were often incongruous.

[Suburbanite]

Quote by: ruksak Find me some "Christian" quotes from him post 1941. They don't exist.

Best I could find:
"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."

- Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941

He says he'll always be catholic, so... you're not calling Hitler a liar are you!?

[BobbyO]

Quote by: Athena The actions of Nazis was very intertwined with protestantism in Germany.

From a religious angle, National Socialism was a Protestant movement. The strength of the nazis was in northern Germany, which was overwhelmingly Protestant. Southent Germany was predominnatly Catholic, gave little support to the nazis.

However, like other forms of socialism is impossible to fathom without a Christian base, the perversion and contempt toward Christanity by the nazis was overwhelming. That Christianity was a target for liquidation by the nazis cannot be questioned.