Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

**Jack** · Oct 17, 2007, 12:31 am

When I was a theist, two questions I had regarding the life of Jesus as recorded in the Bible were never answered by any of the most well-read Christians I asked.

Thirty years later and no longer a theist, I still can't get a satisfactory explanation. I've read hundreds of Christian theological tomes as well as asked in forums where believers had plenty of opportunity to provide an answer, and still have not gotten a response. There are a few sects that have their own interpretation of the events I question, but their beliefs are not based on any Biblical scripture I've read.

So if any Christian or Biblical scholar can provide insight into these questions, I'd appreciate it. And if they can't, I have to wonder why.

(First) Who recorded the youth of Jesus? It's obvious no one at the time realized what he was destined to become, so who had the presence of mind to record his birth and early years? If Jesus himself related these events later in life to those who recorded the New Testament, why is there no mention of his reminisces? And as a (temporary) human with a typically fallible memory, how accurate could he have been describing events 30 years old that occurred when he was less than 10 years old? In short, how did the Bible come to be able to record the early years of his life?

(Second) Where was Jesus from his early teens to his late 20s? What did he do, where did he go? Why did no one record those years in the Bible?

(Bonus question) According to the Bible, where were we before we were born? Were we who we are now? Were we sinful before birth as well as after? Why can no one remember their "life" before this incarnation, at least according to the Christian doctrine?

phoenix_fire · Oct 17, 2007, 12:47 am

Well, His mum knew from the beginning that He was important. And the Bible indicates that she was still around at the time of the main events of Jesus' life. So it's probably pretty safe to assume that she might have filled some of that information in. There was also James, if we are to assume that he was Jesus' half brother.

I honestly don't know on the second one. Obviously, there wasn't anything important or it would've made it in. Maybe He was studying or coming to grips with who He was and what He had to do. Something like that could be cause for serious introspection.

On the third...*shrugs*

HelioPrime · Oct 17, 2007, 01:14 am

I've always wondered the second one either. Jesus seems to skip from 10 to 30 in fast forward.

As for the third ?:eek:?
I didn't know the bible said anything about people existing in another life or form. I guess if god sacrificed his son for our sins then we must have been sinners from the start.

phoenix_fire · Oct 17, 2007, 01:53 am

In my opinion, it really doesn't matter if we're sinners from the start. We can all quite clearly remember sins that we've committed when we've known better, so that really makes "original sin" kinda superfluous.

freefallife · Oct 17, 2007, 02:19 am

Maybe he was studing up on how to fool a group of people into believing he was the son of god.

phoenix_fire · Oct 17, 2007, 02:34 am

:rolleyes: That's not terribly constructive.

freefallife · Oct 17, 2007, 04:46 am

Neither is religion:rolleyes:

Autolykos · Oct 17, 2007, 08:07 am

Isherwood, watch Zeitgeist. It will give you the answers you're looking for.

- Rob

phoenix_fire · Oct 17, 2007, 08:37 am

Quote:

Quote by: freefallife

Neither is religion:rolleyes:

Impertinent one-liners like that are against the rules. And there's a reason for it. Nothing but unsubstantiated opinion that does not contribute to the topic at hand in any way.

Zhavric · Oct 17, 2007, 09:52 am

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

(First) Who recorded the youth of Jesus? It's obvious no one at the time realized what he was destined to become, so who had the presence of mind to record his birth and early years? If Jesus himself related these events later in life to those who recorded the New Testament, why is there no mention of his reminisces? And as a (temporary) human with a typically fallible memory, how accurate could he have been describing events 30 years old that occurred when he was less than 10 years old? In short, how did the Bible come to be able to record the early years of his life?

It's obvious it wasn't recorded but invented (or rather adapted from earlier myths) after the fact. I can think of at least one other telling instance which is Christ in the garden of Gethesmane(sp?) where all the disciples are away / sleeping. Who recorded this moment of Jesus' alleged life?

Quote:

(Second) Where was Jesus from his early teens to his late 20s? What did he do, where did he go? Why did no one record those years in the Bible?

The only necessary parts of Jesus' life are his early youth and the events leading up to his death and alleged resurrection. The most obvious reasoning behind Jesus' lack of young to mid adult life is the problem of a spouse & children. Why doesn't Jesus have kids? Why doesn't he have a wife? The christ mythers dodge the issue all together by simply ignoring it.

Quote:

(Bonus question) According to the Bible, where were we before we were born? Were we who we are now? Were we sinful before birth as well as after? Why can no one remember their "life" before this incarnation, at least according to the Christian doctrine?

For you Christians who've been caught with your pants down, you can watch this film to find the answer. What does it say that a pair of atheists who debate as a hobby know more about the religion that's supposedly the focal point of your life?

5010 · Oct 17, 2007, 12:43 pm

My other question is "where on Earth is he?" After all, he was supposed to come back, right? How much longer will people wait?

Chaossaber314 · Oct 17, 2007, 01:00 pm

Quote:

Who recorded the youth of Jesus?

Perhaps his parents?

Quote:

Where was Jesus from his early teens to his late 20s? What did he do, where did he go? Why did no one record those years in the Bible?

Savior or not, I think he was probably in hiding. Not exactly something to brag about though admittedly the bible doesn't have a problem relating his family fleeing to Egypt. Though this could be argued that he was still a child at that time.

Another possible explanation is that nothing notable happened during this time.

Zhavric · Oct 17, 2007, 01:14 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Chaossaber314

Savior or not, I think he was probably in hiding.

From what? What was he in hiding from? Why didn't it find him? How did he survive?

Your speculation raises more questions than it answers.

Quote:

Another possible explanation is that nothing notable happened during this time.

This is actually correct. Nothing notable happened in the years when Jesus would have allegedly been in his 20's. Nothing happened before that. Nothing happened when Jeses was allegedly in his 30's. It wasn't until many decades after the fact the myth was invented.

Chaossaber314 · Oct 17, 2007, 01:41 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Zhavric

From what? What was he in hiding from? Why didn't it find him? How did he survive?

Your speculation raises more questions than it answers.

They supposedly fled to Egypt when he was a child. Perhaps they never left until he was an adult?

Oct 17, 2007, 12:31 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 13,010	Jesus' incomplete biography When I was a theist, two questions I had regarding the life of Jesus as recorded in the Bible were never answered by any of the most well-read Christians I asked. Thirty years later and no longer a theist, I still can't get a satisfactory explanation. I've read hundreds of Christian theological tomes as well as asked in forums where believers had plenty of opportunity to provide an answer, and still have not gotten a response. There are a few sects that have their own interpretation of the events I question, but their beliefs are not based on any Biblical scripture I've read. So if any Christian or Biblical scholar can provide insight into these questions, I'd appreciate it. And if they can't, I have to wonder why. (First) Who recorded the youth of Jesus? It's obvious no one at the time realized what he was destined to become, so who had the presence of mind to record his birth and early years? If Jesus himself related these events later in life to those who recorded the New Testament, why is there no mention of his reminisces? And as a (temporary) human with a typically fallible memory, how accurate could he have been describing events 30 years old that occurred when he was less than 10 years old? In short, how did the Bible come to be able to record the early years of his life? (Second) Where was Jesus from his early teens to his late 20s? What did he do, where did he go? Why did no one record those years in the Bible? (Bonus question) According to the Bible, where were we before we were born? Were we who we are now? Were we sinful before birth as well as after? Why can no one remember their "life" before this incarnation, at least according to the Christian doctrine? The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Oct 17, 2007, 12:47 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
phoenix_fire Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277	Well, His mum knew from the beginning that He was important. And the Bible indicates that she was still around at the time of the main events of Jesus' life. So it's probably pretty safe to assume that she might have filled some of that information in. There was also James, if we are to assume that he was Jesus' half brother. I honestly don't know on the second one. Obviously, there wasn't anything important or it would've made it in. Maybe He was studying or coming to grips with who He was and what He had to do. Something like that could be cause for serious introspection. On the third...shrugs Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6

Oct 17, 2007, 01:14 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
HelioPrime Hucking Fuskies Location: Conn Posts: 2,286	I've always wondered the second one either. Jesus seems to skip from 10 to 30 in fast forward. As for the third ?:eek:? I didn't know the bible said anything about people existing in another life or form. I guess if god sacrificed his son for our sins then we must have been sinners from the start. What do you say to an atheist who sneezes? Yourdeadthatsit! - Dane Cook

Oct 17, 2007, 01:53 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
phoenix_fire Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277	In my opinion, it really doesn't matter if we're sinners from the start. We can all quite clearly remember sins that we've committed when we've known better, so that really makes "original sin" kinda superfluous. Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6

Oct 17, 2007, 02:19 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
freefallife Heaven? Try skydivin Posts: 433	Maybe he was studing up on how to fool a group of people into believing he was the son of god. "I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts

Oct 17, 2007, 02:34 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
phoenix_fire Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277	:rolleyes: That's not terribly constructive. Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6

Oct 17, 2007, 04:46 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
freefallife Heaven? Try skydivin Posts: 433	Neither is religion:rolleyes: "I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts

Oct 17, 2007, 08:07 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Autolykos Logical Phallussy Location: In your internets. Posts: 2,991	Isherwood, watch Zeitgeist. It will give you the answers you're looking for. - Rob "I'd rather be free and alive!" -- Ron Paul Religion isn't the greatest threat to mankind -- authoritarianism is. The Anarcheion Zeitgeist

Oct 17, 2007, 12:43 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
5010 mostly harmless Location: USA Posts: 1,282	My other question is "where on Earth is he?" After all, he was supposed to come back, right? How much longer will people wait? - solo (my site)