Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

G. Adams · Oct 24, 2003, 07:42 am

Its not semantics. You ever seen the Dali Lama looking depressed? To be honest he looks stoned half the time. And he's not even enlightened.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 24, 2003, 01:33 pm

It's the lack of desire; ie: satisfaction. Contentment is the emotional quality of satisfaction. If the Dalai Lama isn't achieving enlightenment, then isn't contentment what we regular folk should be aiming for?

On a side note, do you have any idea how long I've been trailing you with less than 10 posts gap between us?

G. Adams · Oct 24, 2003, 01:46 pm

Yes, I have. Have you noticed my posts have been getting shorter in order to keep up? Actually its more about me hitting the 10% of all posts. I had 20% at one point long, long ago.

FedFem, I have to apologise for the dates of Wicca, I looked through my posts and I see i've been blending wicca with witchcraft. This isn't gonna happen often but *deep breath* i was wrong.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 24, 2003, 01:59 pm

I wasn't necessarily calling you a yuppie but regardless I'm tired of white comfortable baby-boomers 'dabbling' in religions that they only have knowledge of from B&N bestsellers. As a Keetowah (betcha didn't know I was Tsalagi, and a heathen in the truest sense of the work =P) the most irritating thing is the horde of white fuckers who are interested in a puddle-depth understanding of the culture and then run off and exclaim they're Keetowah to all their friends. To those who here are "Buddhist," I ask, who have you studied with and for how long?

eXploiTeD · Oct 24, 2003, 02:27 pm

I find it to be hilarious that RebelWithAnAK accuses people of semantics while in his previous post, he challenged the use of a specific word.

G. Adams · Oct 24, 2003, 03:31 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,)
I wasn't necessarily calling you a yuppie but regardless I'm tired of white comfortable baby-boomers 'dabbling' in religions that they only have knowledge of from B&N bestsellers. As a Keetowah (betcha didn't know I was Tsalagi, and a heathen in the truest sense of the work =P) the most irritating thing is the horde of white fuckers who are interested in a puddle-depth understanding of the culture and then run off and exclaim they're Keetowah to all their friends. To those who here are "Buddhist," I ask, who have you studied with and for how long?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Yep I did know that, well not in so much specifics. You mentioned it on ranters when you were talking about peyote.

Thankfully i havn't met any people who dabble in religion for enjoyment of a label. Theres so few religious people in my area that any one who is religious (or spiritual) really is. And on top of that most of the people where I come from are towny scum (or chavas if your a geordie/woolyback sunderlander), and can't help but shout abuse at skaters, goths, punks etc So people coming out as witches guarentees a beating every now and then.

G. Adams · Oct 24, 2003, 03:34 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,)
I wasn't necessarily calling you a yuppie but regardless I'm tired of white comfortable baby-boomers 'dabbling' in religions that they only have knowledge of from B&N bestsellers. As a Keetowah (betcha didn't know I was Tsalagi, and a heathen in the truest sense of the work =P) the most irritating thing is the horde of white fuckers who are interested in a puddle-depth understanding of the culture and then run off and exclaim they're Keetowah to all their friends. To those who here are "Buddhist," I ask, who have you studied with and for how long?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Ooh, ooh, more semantics. A heathen is a follower of Norse ways, not pagan ways. It comes from the Icelandic word Headen (well its not a d but the letter aint on my keyboard and your kidding if you think i'm gonna look into character map). They have no word for pagan, but heathen is it closest equivalent. And so, heathen is a norse pagan; an Asatru or Odinist.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 25, 2003, 01:36 am

Heathen = One who lives in the heaths.
Heath = An extensive tract of uncultivated open land; a mound of earth.
Pagan = A country-dweller, whose antonym is a citizen.
Citizen = A city-dweller.

These are where the words came from.

G. Adams · Oct 26, 2003, 01:41 pm

yes yes, i know that is its correct english meaning. but as i said, followers of Asatru have adopted it as in Icelandic language (Iceland being the longest surviving Asatru nation, and one of the prime places it has been growing again) the closest word to pagan they have is heathen. So in neo-pagan circles heathen has been accepted as a follower of asatru.

RebelWithanAK · Oct 26, 2003, 01:43 pm

I'm not a neo-pagan, so I wouldn't know.

Rave7pt0 · Oct 26, 2003, 11:03 pm

I think you're all looking for too much specificity... I think you need a guideline... a context with which to measure truth. That context must be your religion.

If you accept that there are elements of truth in all, or most things, then you must have a rational context for such a belief... for a person lacking the intellectual capacity to create such a context, agnosticism follows. For one with a deeper understanding of the reality in which we live, a deeper truth and harmony is evident, albiet not plainly.

What one needs to find their soul is a looking glass for the blind. An aid for the deaf -- you need glasses for your third eye.

Bob652 · Apr 23, 2007, 05:39 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Section 8

Well, I write this in deep regret. For those of you who don't know, I'm Jewish. Or I should say was Jewish. I lost my faith in God. God is dead. I don't know what religion I am. I guess that makes me augnostic, or divisionist. I guess I'll be looking into divisionism or buddhism, maybe aethiesm. Paganism looked a little too weird, but if there are any pagans on this board please post. I don't know if I'm making a mistake, but I'm pretty sure that God doesn't exist. It just got too dogmatic, placing blind faith in a supreme being.

How can you look at the stars above and consider the order of the universe, watch a flower grow, observe the innate, programed activities of birds building nests or be aware of the constand reproduction of nature and not believe in God?

**Jack** · Apr 23, 2007, 06:23 pm

Quote:

How can you look at the stars above and consider the order of the universe, watch a flower grow, observe the innate, programed activities of birds building nests or be aware of the constand reproduction of nature and not believe in God?

It's quite easy. Just stop your comment at the point where you acknowledge that what you see is nature. We don't need to construct an elaborate concept of a supernatural being to explain the workings and wonder of nature.

Athena · Apr 23, 2007, 06:46 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Section 8

Well, I write this in deep regret. For those of you who don't know, I'm Jewish. Or I should say was Jewish. I lost my faith in God. God is dead. I don't know what religion I am. I guess that makes me augnostic, or divisionist. I guess I'll be looking into divisionism or buddhism, maybe aethiesm. Paganism looked a little too weird, but if there are any pagans on this board please post. I don't know if I'm making a mistake, but I'm pretty sure that God doesn't exist. It just got too dogmatic, placing blind faith in a supreme being.

Although I argue against religion, I feel terribly sad when someone looses faith. In the past I never argued religion, but the Christian Right and using religion to mobilize US for war is not tolerable. Also want religion has done to our understanding of democracy is not tolerable. Anyway, instead of thinking you have to know truth, how about being cool with "we don't know"? We can not directly experience God and therefore can not know God.

Check out Spinoza. He was a Jew who was excommunicated for his scientific understanding of God and rejection of the mythology upon which religion is based.

You might also stop thinking with your head and become aware of your gut reaction. Our culture is way too much in its head, and we have blinded ourselves to our intuition.

I haven't seen Kuldeep's post lately. I love his concept of God as consciousness. For me it is highly possible God is the cumulative manifestion of all consciousness. Absolutely everything is energy. Matter is energy. I believe there is a consciousness beyond our comprehension.

Hum, perhaps we should question again, why does anyone need a God? What do you want of a God?

Athena · Apr 23, 2007, 07:07 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

It's quite easy. Just stop your comment at the point where you acknowledge that what you see is nature. We don't need to construct an elaborate concept of a supernatural being to explain the workings and wonder of nature.

I like to think in terms of "how does God do that" rather than "who is God and what is his will".

I watched a show based on Jewish story telling (the bible) last night, and went into a mild state of shock. I constantly wonder, how intelligent human beings believe this stuff is for real? Why don't they see it as human malnipulation of others?

Today some people follow those who give us messages from the dead. If they saying things we want to hear, it is fun to believe this stuff is for real. However, if they are saying crazy things, we quickly decide they are delusional, and in serious need of mental help. In the bible stories I watched last night, people wanted to believe a God was leading them into wars for promised land, and that anything short of strict obedience to this God, resulted in loosing God's favor, and therefore loosing wars. It just so happened that this God was speaking to one old man, who dumped his chosen leader for not doing exactly what he told the man to do. We have no reason at all to believe this old man had a direct line to God. When he then picked David to be king, it was so obvious he chose a young boy who would not question him. I guess people believed the old man, because they wanted to.

Throughout history people have followed war leaders with the belief that these men are chosen by God, and Bush gave us the opportunity to learn history be experiencing it. Our complaints about Muslim violence falls on deaf ears, for those of us realize the role of God and war in all religions.

Hopefully, today's warring will bring an end to religions with a jealous and revengeful God of war.

Manzooka · Apr 24, 2007, 12:52 am

Allow me to express some my personal opinions while offering you my congratulations.

As a former Christian who went through the pains of discarding the religious yolk I can at least partly understand where you're coming from. There is a sadness is abandoning religion, like that of leaving a comfortable bed or a favorite childhood teddy bear. The good news is that a whole bright new world awaits you where knowledge must no longer be filtered through a belief system. Things become both clearer and less clear all at the same time. It's pretty exciting really.

I wish you luck in all of your personal and intellectual endeavors. And I’d suggest you look into agnosticism, also referred to as weak atheism. In my opinion it is the most logical place to plant your feet on the religious spectrum.

Osborn F Enready · Apr 24, 2007, 02:23 am

To the original poster....

GOOD FOR YOU!

I hope you find what it is you seek to give you piece of mind, and a rational base of reason.

For me, Ayn Rand opened new doors into that pursuit.

Bob652 · Apr 24, 2007, 04:34 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

It's quite easy. Just stop your comment at the point where you acknowledge that what you see is nature. We don't need to construct an elaborate concept of a supernatural being to explain the workings and wonder of nature.

All things need a cause. That is a scientific fact. I find it easier to believe that an intelligent Being created all than to believe that all was created by nothingness. It takes more faith to be an athiest.

Osborn F Enready · Apr 24, 2007, 04:50 pm

Quote:

bob652 said:
It takes more faith to be an athiest.

I disagree, but the real reason I am responding is to say that describing the incredible forces of nature such as black holes and the big-bang as coming from nothingness, is not in any way accurate.

What came before the big-bang may simply not be observable to us, because what we see didn't exist at that time, and vice-versa.

Marconius · Apr 24, 2007, 04:53 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Bob652

All things need a cause. That is a scientific fact. I find it easier to believe that an intelligent Being created all than to believe that all was created by nothingness. It takes more faith to be an athiest.

Adding superpowered beings solves the 'all things need a cause', problem how? Until you can explain where this creator is, how it came to be, and why we cannot detect it it fails, because it just adds more questions than answers.

To the OP I recommend staying away from religion but if you really want one I suggest Buddism even though it is more of a philosophy than a religion.

Oct 24, 2003, 07:42 am	#41 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	Its not semantics. You ever seen the Dali Lama looking depressed? To be honest he looks stoned half the time. And he's not even enlightened. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 24, 2003, 01:33 pm	#42 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	It's the lack of desire; ie: satisfaction. Contentment is the emotional quality of satisfaction. If the Dalai Lama isn't achieving enlightenment, then isn't contentment what we regular folk should be aiming for? On a side note, do you have any idea how long I've been trailing you with less than 10 posts gap between us? . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 24, 2003, 01:46 pm	#43 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	Yes, I have. Have you noticed my posts have been getting shorter in order to keep up? Actually its more about me hitting the 10% of all posts. I had 20% at one point long, long ago. FedFem, I have to apologise for the dates of Wicca, I looked through my posts and I see i've been blending wicca with witchcraft. This isn't gonna happen often but deep breath i was wrong. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 24, 2003, 01:59 pm	#44 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	I wasn't necessarily calling you a yuppie but regardless I'm tired of white comfortable baby-boomers 'dabbling' in religions that they only have knowledge of from B&N bestsellers. As a Keetowah (betcha didn't know I was Tsalagi, and a heathen in the truest sense of the work =P) the most irritating thing is the horde of white fuckers who are interested in a puddle-depth understanding of the culture and then run off and exclaim they're Keetowah to all their friends. To those who here are "Buddhist," I ask, who have you studied with and for how long? . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 24, 2003, 03:31 pm	#46 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,) I wasn't necessarily calling you a yuppie but regardless I'm tired of white comfortable baby-boomers 'dabbling' in religions that they only have knowledge of from B&N bestsellers. As a Keetowah (betcha didn't know I was Tsalagi, and a heathen in the truest sense of the work =P) the most irritating thing is the horde of white fuckers who are interested in a puddle-depth understanding of the culture and then run off and exclaim they're Keetowah to all their friends. To those who here are "Buddhist," I ask, who have you studied with and for how long?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Yep I did know that, well not in so much specifics. You mentioned it on ranters when you were talking about peyote. Thankfully i havn't met any people who dabble in religion for enjoyment of a label. Theres so few religious people in my area that any one who is religious (or spiritual) really is. And on top of that most of the people where I come from are towny scum (or chavas if your a geordie/woolyback sunderlander), and can't help but shout abuse at skaters, goths, punks etc So people coming out as witches guarentees a beating every now and then. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 24, 2003, 02:27 pm	#45 (permalink) (top)
eXploiTeD Molten Ash Posts: 32	I find it to be hilarious that RebelWithAnAK accuses people of semantics while in his previous post, he challenged the use of a specific word.

Oct 24, 2003, 03:34 pm	#47 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,) I wasn't necessarily calling you a yuppie but regardless I'm tired of white comfortable baby-boomers 'dabbling' in religions that they only have knowledge of from B&N bestsellers. As a Keetowah (betcha didn't know I was Tsalagi, and a heathen in the truest sense of the work =P) the most irritating thing is the horde of white fuckers who are interested in a puddle-depth understanding of the culture and then run off and exclaim they're Keetowah to all their friends. To those who here are "Buddhist," I ask, who have you studied with and for how long?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Ooh, ooh, more semantics. A heathen is a follower of Norse ways, not pagan ways. It comes from the Icelandic word Headen (well its not a d but the letter aint on my keyboard and your kidding if you think i'm gonna look into character map). They have no word for pagan, but heathen is it closest equivalent. And so, heathen is a norse pagan; an Asatru or Odinist. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 25, 2003, 01:36 am	#48 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	Heathen = One who lives in the heaths. Heath = An extensive tract of uncultivated open land; a mound of earth. Pagan = A country-dweller, whose antonym is a citizen. Citizen = A city-dweller. These are where the words came from. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 26, 2003, 01:41 pm	#49 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	yes yes, i know that is its correct english meaning. but as i said, followers of Asatru have adopted it as in Icelandic language (Iceland being the longest surviving Asatru nation, and one of the prime places it has been growing again) the closest word to pagan they have is heathen. So in neo-pagan circles heathen has been accepted as a follower of asatru. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 26, 2003, 01:43 pm	#50 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	I'm not a neo-pagan, so I wouldn't know. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Oct 26, 2003, 11:03 pm	#51 (permalink) (top)
Rave7pt0 Igneous Magma Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 373	I think you're all looking for too much specificity... I think you need a guideline... a context with which to measure truth. That context must be your religion. If you accept that there are elements of truth in all, or most things, then you must have a rational context for such a belief... for a person lacking the intellectual capacity to create such a context, agnosticism follows. For one with a deeper understanding of the reality in which we live, a deeper truth and harmony is evident, albiet not plainly. What one needs to find their soul is a looking glass for the blind. An aid for the deaf -- you need glasses for your third eye. Rave7pt0.net BlizzLink.com -- Blizzard Entertainment Tournaments and Clans

Apr 24, 2007, 12:52 am	#56 (permalink) (top)
Manzooka Sedimentary Rock Posts: 11	Allow me to express some my personal opinions while offering you my congratulations. As a former Christian who went through the pains of discarding the religious yolk I can at least partly understand where you're coming from. There is a sadness is abandoning religion, like that of leaving a comfortable bed or a favorite childhood teddy bear. The good news is that a whole bright new world awaits you where knowledge must no longer be filtered through a belief system. Things become both clearer and less clear all at the same time. It's pretty exciting really. I wish you luck in all of your personal and intellectual endeavors. And I’d suggest you look into agnosticism, also referred to as weak atheism. In my opinion it is the most logical place to plant your feet on the religious spectrum.

Apr 24, 2007, 02:23 am	#57 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	To the original poster.... GOOD FOR YOU! I hope you find what it is you seek to give you piece of mind, and a rational base of reason. For me, Ayn Rand opened new doors into that pursuit. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready