Truth Absolute?

[Chancellor]

Quote by: J. Askiloupos No-one here should feel compelled to answer, but... what particular worldview do each of you hold?

A combination of Libertarian, Calvinist and dispensationalist (not in any particular order).

[thrashee]

These kinds of hypotheticals ("if we changed the meaning of the number 2 or the number 4") are just stupid. We're talking about reality and not hypotheticals.

Ok, granted, they're pretty contrived examples that are really only addressing notation, not the truth behind the quantities, so I retract them.

I guess my main thrust is, how sure are we about absolute truths, as we are, after all, observers of such truths? Does the act of observing actually dictate truth?

Quantum physics seems to indicate it does, however counterintuitive that notion may seem. The famous Schrodinger's Cat example makes us realize that, on a quantum level, the act of observing actually influences your result. Is it a wave or a particle?

Point being, truth is more slippery than every day empirical evidence suggests.

[thrashee]

Askiloupos,

Much like you, I believe there are fragments of truth behind most religions. And much like you, I feel like the only thing you really can do is try to find the commonalities between them, and make a best guess that those commonalities probably DO contain some truth to them.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: thrashee Ok, granted, they're pretty contrived examples that are really only addressing notation, not the truth behind the quantities, so I retract them. I guess my main thrust is, how sure are we about absolute truths, as we are, after all, observers of such truths? Does the act of observing actually dictate truth? Quantum physics seems to indicate it does, however counterintuitive that notion may seem. The famous Schrodinger's Cat example makes us realize that, on a quantum level, the act of observing actually influences your result. Is it a wave or a particle? Point being, truth is more slippery than every day empirical evidence suggests.

But does the quantum level represent reality or is it akin to what might be called the mystical or supernatural realm?

[thrashee]

But does the quantum level represent reality or is it akin to what might be called the mystical or supernatural realm?

It's quantum physics...meaning it belongs in the realm of science. The mystics, New Agers, and certain Eastern-Religion-minded folks have tried tying quantum levels into their beliefs, not the other way around.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: thrashee It's quantum physics...meaning it belongs in the realm of science. The mystics, New Agers, and certain Eastern-Religion-minded folks have tried tying quantum levels into their beliefs, not the other way around.

The point being that the quantum level seems to be more abstract than reality.

[thrashee]

I guess that depends on how far you dig into reality. Imagine how abstract the notion of atoms and subatomic particles must have seemed to scientists 300 years ago.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Chancellor 2+2=4

Add 2 drops of water to 2 drops of water = 1 big drop of water, not 4. I can prove it.

[thrashee]

Add 2 drops of water to 2 drops of water = 1 big drop of water, not 4. I can prove it.

Doh! Why didn't I think of that :)

[ZNFYRH]

Quote by: thrashee Or, as a better example: 10 + 10 = 4. This true in present day systems.

There are 10 types of people.

Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[Bractals]

Quote by: thrashee Or, as a better example: 10 + 10 = 4. This true in present day systems.

Shouldn't that be 10 + 10 = 100 ?

[Objectivist]

Quote by: Technosoul Add 2 drops of water to 2 drops of water = 1 big drop of water, not 4. I can prove it.

2 molecules of water + 2 molecules of water = 4 molecules of water.

[thrashee]

Shouldn't that be 10 + 10 = 100 ?

Not if 10 is binary.

[ZNFYRH]

100 is binary for 4.

In binary, 10 + 10 = 100

Then again, if you're crossing number systems, you could say 10 + 10 = 10

[thrashee]

100 is binary for 4. In binary, 10 + 10 = 100

Yeah, I was crossing systems.

10 (2) + 10 (2) = 4

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Technosoul Add 2 drops of water to 2 drops of water = 1 big drop of water, not 4. I can prove it.

No, you still have four drops. The fact that the four have merged into one larger amount of water (obviously more than a drop) is irrelevant.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: J. Askiloupos No-one here should feel compelled to answer, but... what particular worldview do each of you hold?

I'm a Christian. No particular brand. In fact, I'm between churches right now. I lean toward non-denominational, but that may just be because I think having a liturgy takes all the fun and spontaneity out of things. jk.

[thrashee]

4 merging into 1 certainly isn't irrelevant, as all these concepts revolve around quantifying something.

A drop of water is a discrete thing. 4 drops coming together to form a larger, single drop of water is a discrete thing. And it's not 4 drops, it's one.

2 + 2 = 1

[Chancellor]

Quote by: thrashee 4 merging into 1 certainly isn't irrelevant, as all these concepts revolve around quantifying something. A drop of water is a discrete thing. 4 drops coming together to form a larger, single drop of water is a discrete thing. And it's not 4 drops, it's one. 2 + 2 = 1

That the four merge into one is most certainly irrelevant to the discussion - particularly since the larger one into which the four have merged can still be broken back down into the four. It's also irrelevant because what we call "two" added to another "two" still equals what we call "four" and that remains absolute.

[J. Askiloupos]

The point being that the quantum level seems to be more abstract than reality.

The quantum level only seems abstract to the minds of indivuduals who are unaccustomed to dealing with it. To a quantum physicist, I would suppose, the seemingly random makeup of quantum realities seem relatively ordered. And by the same token, we may determine the absolute truth of the universe- in part, at least- from the experience life brings.