Who Cares If God Exists?

[castille]

I am not Christian, but I often enjoy watching the banter between Christians and those attacking them.

Have they forgotten what god, or jesus, taught? It doesn't matter if there is a god or not; any sane god will let you into heaven it you follow his values!
I believe our mighty deity is watching this with a smile on his face, amused at the mortals vain efforts to justify their beliefs.


If you follow the basic principles of any "good" god (ie. love thy neighbours, don't serial kill for fun, etc), then you'll live a good life. In the end, it doesn't matter if you wear a cross or not, as long as you live by the principles with common sense.

Like Deng Xiaoping once said, "it doesnt matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches the rat".

[Pooeypants]

Personally I don't care if ppl have an imaginary friend but when you have political movements such as creationism (it conflicts with reality but there yer go, plenty of mad ppl out there), to which the argument boils down to the existence of God, thats when I'd get bothered over it.

[Impenitent]

and that's the problem... there is no good or evil... even less so without "god" or his priestly interpreters who tell you what god says is good and evil...

[Waychel]

All that exists aside from religion and spirituality are scientific explanations and theories, many of which take the same amount of "faith" and "belief" to consider "truth." Faith was never something real for me personally, which is why many scientific theories are things that I likewise cannot accept along with religion. So, I find the arguments of many die-hard Atheists just as futile as those of Creationalists in many debates.

I believe people become intoxicated by their own perceptions of what they believe to be "absolute truth." Truth of life's meaning is a personal thing, but being that it is human nature to be egocentric, we tend to either subject or force our own personal beliefs upon each other. We also have an inclination towards finding others who do not share the same beliefs as we do to be of some inferiority, or worthy of pity in the form of "conversion" or "enlightenment". This is the case not only with religious groups such as Christians, but those with non-beliefs, such as Atheists.

I think if everyone realized that we all have different philosophies (even when sharing the same religion or spirituality) and respected that, we'd all be a hell of a-lot happier. We'd also have less debates going in circles, too. =PpP Who cares if God doesn't exist? To some people, he does.

[The Devil]

But because some people believe so doesn't make it the absolute truth. If I believed I was the second coming of Christ, that wouldn't make it so. :B

I just ignore religions... it's the simplest and best way to go about things. After all, religions are man-made anyway, so how can any be right?

[Waychel]

My point was that there is no absolute truth to anything in personal philosophy because people make their own truths for themselves. It is pointless to claim your truth is absolute when the philosophy of creation itself is a purely speculatory one and any explanation requires some faith on every person's part to uphold in their minds.

[castille]

"So we percieve, and we will be."


The world is what we percieve it to be.

[Pooeypants]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Waychel,)
All that exists aside from religion and spirituality are scientific explanations and theories, many of which take the same amount of "faith" and "belief" to consider "truth." Faith was never something real for me personally, which is why many scientific theories are things that I likewise cannot accept along with religion. So, I find the arguments of many die-hard Atheists just as futile as those of Creationalists in many debates.

<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
Please show me scientific theories that rely on faith.

[Rave7pt0]

They all do technically. Inductive reasoning, which relies on observation of patterns, is ultimately probabilistic, making it not fact, but assumption... a matter of faith.


There was a woman once, in a hypothetical universe, on a planet that was exactly like ours -- except that no one could hear. They all had ears, but they either didn't work or people chose not to use them. Everyone was stone def... except one person. This woman, walking down the street could hear cars, and know when to duck away from people, since she could hear them fart. She could sense happiness characterized as laughter even if she couldn't see anyone laughing. All because she could hear.
She told people far and wide what a miracle it was to be able to hear, how much it could open your mind. They all looked at her and said: "You can't prove that you can hear." "Stop making up fantasies in your head. I can't hear and neither can you." "Oh yeah? If you can hear, then what noise is there on the other side of the world?"

And she said, I can tell you what I hear, and she said, but I can hear, and so can you if you just open your mind, and she said I can't hear things that far, that's not how it works.

And the def ones laughed, and wrote her off.

[G. Adams]

You could have just said 'Plato's cave story' (or Socrates if Geoff is gonna be picky again) which had the same meanings behind it.

[TwoShanks]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Rave7pt0,)

She told people far and wide what a miracle it was to be able to hear, how much it could open your mind. They all looked at her and said: "You can't prove that you can hear." "Stop making up fantasies in your head. I can't hear and neither can you." "Oh yeah? If you can hear, then what noise is there on the other side of the world?"
<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Actually it would be quite simple to make a test wherein she could prove the ability to hear. Can you really not imagine any kind of scientific test that would prove that this woman could hear sound?

[Rave7pt0]

Those with augmented perception prove themselves all the time and how many people still don't believe?

[Geoff332]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Please show me scientific theories that rely on faith.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
'Science' rests on a number of metaphysical/philosophical assumptions that cannot be scientifically demonstrated. These include (in a general, non-mutually exclusive list):
1. The logic of falsification
2. Materialism
3. Causal determinism
4. Rationality/logical coherence
5. Mathematics
6. Extrapolation from observation

Excluding all things that cannot be scientifically demonstrated from knowledge excludes science from knowledge (and, in the process produces a nice little liar's paradox). The fact that most of these assumptions are accepted uncritically (and usually in ignorance) gives almost a textbook definition of knowledge built on faith.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Even science is based on the 'faith' that you actually exist and that the sensory information you receive is real. You cannot prove that you are not the only living being that has gone quite mad and is imagining everything you see. But you have faith that the universe is a puzzle that can be solved, it does not have to be...

[Geoff332]

To a large extent, I see it as a self-fulfilling prophecy. We assume that the 'things as the really are' are logical, ordered, rational, coherent and so forth. We develop a method that is both all of those things and is only capable of discovering things that are all of those things. We find evidence supporting our assumptions, and take this as proof of our assumptions. All it actually 'proves' is that we assumed certain things.

[Rave7pt0]

Good observation Geoff, I think you're right.

[Elijah]

My question to the topic starter is:

Who is to say what a sane god would do. That would be putting yourself on his level, which we all know you're not.

[PhanthomOps]

Waychel:

Quote:
"I think if everyone realized that we all have different philosophies (even when sharing the same religion or spirituality) and respected that, we'd all be a hell of a-lot happier. We'd also have less debates going in circles, too. =PpP Who cares if God doesn't exist? To some people, he does."

Boy did you hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :)


Pooeypants: The airplane, getting the first man to the moon.

[PhanthomOps]

Elijah,

You are absolutely right, look where it got Satin.

And to be honest, I'm glad I'm not God and have to listen and deal with all this back and forth nonsense, because I would probably loose my patience - wipe everything out and start all over again.

[Gorgo]

This is true, this does happen people often do get confused and try to get or maintain their self-worth by putting others down. That's why you hear skeptics giggling about "idiots," as though they're never idiots and Christians tsk-tsking about others going to Hell, etc.

However, there are people that tell other people why using certain substances in excess or in certain ways is dangerous. They're not doing that to put others down primarily, although some do forget that sometimes.

I tell people they don't need god(s) because they don't have to put themselves down. Believing in god(s) is the result of the same confusion of self-worth that putting others down is. They are afraid of reality in some way, so they need to create a fantasy life in order to get self-worth. You hear it all the time, and we've heard it in response to some of my posts. "What if this is all there is?" "My life would be meaningless if there were no god(s)."

It's okay, people. You don't need that. You want it, fine. But don't ask me to tell you that it's a reasonable thing to do.

Originally posted by Waychel, We also have an inclination towards finding others who do not share the same beliefs as we do to be of some inferiority, or worthy of pity in the form of "conversion" or "enlightenment". This is the case not only with religious groups such as Christians, but those with non-beliefs, such as Atheists.