Countercultural Christianity, or "The New Men"

[Netopalis]

Hello, everyone....

As most anyone who's read my posts will know, I am a Christian. I've been doing a lot of thinking about Christianity lately, and I would like to propose a set of points which I believe to be the beliefs that correspond most closely to the Bible, in comparison to many commonly-held ideas. There are two very important passages that I will be referencing in this post:

Galatians 3:19-25

19What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one. 21Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ[h] that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Essentially, this passage explains that the Mosaic law is no longer applicable as it once was, because a new covenant has been made.


The second passage is a bit more well known:
Matthew 22:34-40

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

This is more famously known as the "double love commandment", and basically presents two criteria for deciding whether an action is ethical under Christianity: Whether it is loving to the other person and whether it is loving towards God.


In light of these two passages, which I consider to be two of the most important passages in the Bible, I believe that I can come to several conclusions:

1) Christians are called to be a countercultural movement, showing the most love and compassion humanly possible to anyone and everyone. Hatred of anyone is in direct violation of the double love commandment. Therefore, we should not be condemning people who sin - rather, we should be accepting and supportive of them. This does not mean that we should compromise on what is sin and what is not - it merely means that we should treat everyone as Jesus Himself would treat them, keeping in mind that he treated prostitutes, thieves and murderers with dignity and respect.

2) Many things which are considered to be a sin are honestly not condemned by the Bible. Drunkenness, for instance, has been cited as a grave sin by many, but I'm not so entirely sure - it's not the smartest move, obviously, and the Proverbs speak against it, but it's never truly cited as a sin.

3) Christians are called to spread the Gospel - but not by using words. Instead, we should try to live our lives in the best possible fashion, and people will instead seek us out, and God will present an opportunity to discuss Christianity, should he see fit.

4) Christians should read the entire Bible at least once, to properly validate the claims of charlatans who would claim to be Christians. Jesus had an impeccable knowledge of scripture, and it was through this that he refuted the Sadducees and Pharisees.


Any thoughts?

[Jack]

In the 1970's I was a youth pastor for a beach-community church in San Diego. We believed basically as you've outlined above. We did a lot of outreach in the homeless/alcoholic/drug addict "communities" that were and still are common in the beach area.
Unfortunately, that's not the style of religious living that's very popular. The big churches, wealthy ministers and rich congregations are more enticing than simple little pastorals trying to live and minister in a way they believe Jesus would have approved of. I'm sure we had an impact on the lives of a few, but it was nowhere near as impressive as the numbers posted by places like the Crystal Cathedral.
Even now I'm convinced that those who believe and want to live a truly Christ-like life are always going to be marginalized, ignored by those who want to believe in order to profit their own lives.

[Netopalis]

Ah - but are numbers a good substitute for a heart that truly loves the Lord? I think not. And as for being marginalized - Jesus Himself was, so it's no surprise...

[arielmessenger]

I'm sorry for traditional Christians to have to arrive at a religious doctrine that can no longer be supported by Old Testament stories now found to be bogus mythologies no more spiritually authoritative than any pagan religions or Homer's books.

I know it seems the height of conceit but it's true, I am the only prophet in the Hebrew tradition who God has favored with the historical truth as well as two new powerful spiritual visions which are in motion carrying the Spirit of Christ into the New Millennium.

This is the real New Christianity.
Biomystical Christianity

I am the first post-Abrahamic prophet of God Most High, EL Elyon.

Ari-EL's messenger

[Netopalis]

Care to back that up? Explain your arguments. Provide source material. Otherwise, you might as well be talking to a brick wall. Also: Giving yourself a title and putting up a website doesn't make you a prophet.

[Jack]

Netopalis, under your #1 in the OP, maybe you should add humility.

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: Netopalis Care to back that up? Explain your arguments. Provide source material. Otherwise, you might as well be talking to a brick wall. Also: Giving yourself a title and putting up a website doesn't make you a prophet.

Oh I dunno. What is the job description and qualification needed to be a prophet?

[Netopalis]

Sorry, sorry, that was a bit over the top, I admit...But I do wish that he would back up his statements if he expects them to be accepted.

As for job description, I suppose that there really isn't one - that being said, he shouldn't expect everyone to drop what they are saying and take up his position just because he calls himself a prophet.

[SoylentGreen]

I suggest we nail him to a cross and see what happens in three days time.
But then again that's already been done.
Any suggestions for a new form of martyrdom?

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Netopalis Ah - but are numbers a good substitute for a heart that truly loves the Lord? I think not. And as for being marginalized - Jesus Himself was, so it's no surprise...

I would agree with everything that you said, but the Bible has put very stringent outlines on the use of alcohol. Timothy was told to use it only as a medicine, but then the following verses give commands:

Romans 13:13
Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

and finally the most well known verse of them all:

Ephesians 5:18
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Drinking wine and alcohol are not forbidden, but being drunk is, in essence, giving up control of your body. If one is not in control of one's body, then they cannot follow the most profound command in the New Testament:

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

now for the next person:

Quote by: arielmessenger I'm sorry for traditional Christians to have to arrive at a religious doctrine that can no longer be supported by Old Testament stories now found to be bogus mythologies no more spiritually authoritative than any pagan religions or Homer's books. I know it seems the height of conceit but it's true, I am the only prophet in the Hebrew tradition who God has favored with the historical truth as well as two new powerful spiritual visions which are in motion carrying the Spirit of Christ into the New Millennium. This is the real New Christianity. Biomystical Christianity I am the first post-Abrahamic prophet of God Most High, EL Elyon. Ari-EL's messenger

There will be only two post-Abrahamic prophets, and those are not to show until the tribulation. Now I shall show with one point that you are not a prophet by showing inaccuracy in one area, but first to authenticate this, you must understand that what a prophet said was completely correct 100% of the time.

In your site, you state that the Bible has been "heavily editted" by the priests and scribes who copied them. However, I have viewed with my own two eyes only a fraction of the artifacts which archaeologists have uncovered as copies of the Bible go. In between the time of the Dead Sea scrolls and more recent copies, there is an average of only one variation per chapter, not a single one of which put the base doctrines of the Bible in danger.

In the same point, you state that it is impossible for us to know exactly what was happening in those years, but I tell you that the mountain of historical evidence both in the scriptures and without the scriptures, give the same picture. We can't know the exact times at which certain words and speeches or meetings around the dinner table happened, but we can see through those documents that we have that there is nothing mystical about God.

In the next point, you state that faith is "blind trust" in the Bible. Faith is not that. It involves trust, but it also involves knowledge. Paul said that salvation and God can be understood, to a finite degree, by the human mind. However, we are commanded to have faith in things we can't see. We can't guarantee that our computer isn't going to crash, but we log onto them every day having faith based on past experience that it will boot up.

In that same point, you state we need to trust God to give "signs." Jesus stated to Thomas that people who have not seen or heard, but trust anyways are more blessed than those who have seen.

In case you have forgotten, the "Spirit of Truth" is the Holy Spirit, who resides in every true Christian, and He is the one telling me that this is straight up deceit. He does not possess us, but instead tells us the right path and lets us choose which way to go. That is free will.

elijah and his spirit are in heaven sighing that they wish this masquerade would end.

Christ is a male most definitely. Every mention of God in the Hebrew and Greek uses masculine identifiers, such as the name in your name. I don't know the meaning in Hebrew of Ariel, but I know the last part stems from the plural masculine name of God, Elohim.

There will be no more gospels, as John wrote in Revelations that anyone who adds or subtracts from the Bible will inherit all the judgment of the tribulation and of Hell.

As for the rest of it, the peace of Canaan is prophecied to be brought about by the religion headed by the antichrist; the religion of peace will be the earmarks of the universal religion headed by the antichrist.

Your claims that Paul was incorrect are absolutely hilarious. What you are claiming is that the basis of Paul's teachings, being corroborative with the very disciples of Jesus and not contradicting the gospels of His disciples, and also bearing the earmarks of scripture and truth, are doctrinally wrong.

You never saw Jesus. He won't return to the earth in physical form until the end-times.

I stopped when I finished the gospel you were trying to write, and skimmed from there to here, but I decided to leave it alone from there, because you will not bring any corroborating evidence, scriptural or historical, that will corroborate your points.

End of story.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Oh I dunno. What is the job description and qualification needed to be a prophet?

A prophet will be 100% accurate in every detail of every prophecy, regardless of how absurd they seem.If they say a day, it will happen on that day. If they say a time, it must happen at that time.

If they fall short of that, don't trust them.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoylentGreen I suggest we nail him to a cross and see what happens in three days time. But then again that's already been done. Any suggestions for a new form of martyrdom?

I have to say that had a bit of humor in it. I just want Ariel to respond to my post to her. Seeing her answer that without using propoganda methods will be absolutely astounding, if she does it.

[Netopalis]

I'll yield that drinking to excess is probably a sin, I should have used the phrase alcohol use instead. However, there are other commonly accepted things which aren't necessarily sins. I've seen people kicked out of church because they didn't dress appropriately, I've seen people claim that reading a book that has a possible anti-Christian bias is a sin, others claiming that it's a sin to miss a single church service. I guess that what I am trying to say is that we're just making it harder on ourselves while gaining nothing...

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Netopalis I'll yield that drinking to excess is probably a sin, I should have used the phrase alcohol use instead. However, there are other commonly accepted things which aren't necessarily sins. I've seen people kicked out of church because they didn't dress appropriately, I've seen people claim that reading a book that has a possible anti-Christian bias is a sin, others claiming that it's a sin to miss a single church service. I guess that what I am trying to say is that we're just making it harder on ourselves while gaining nothing...

Now these things I would agree with you on to an extent. Visitors I can understand, but if you are a member of the church, you should live up to a higher standard than the unsaved around you. Coming to church in clothes that do everything except put up neon signs saying, "I want sex" makes any person in church say to me that they think a Christian life is a mere trifle.

The rest of it I do sometimes in certain circumstances. I had to stay home to take care of my grandmum who has ovarian cancer today, but I doubt anyone in the church would say I was skipping for no reason. I can have church with any group of people willing to worship God, regardless of where I am.

As for books, I read anti-Christian literature a lot and then find Bible verses that refute it and also scientific or historical facts that refute it. I didn't even need to read the da Vinci code because of all the history channel and Discovery Channel specials that refuted it. I had every detail picked apart in those and have seen it before in previous books.

[arielmessenger]

all the New Testament spiritual authority is gone because the whole Hebrew/Jewish ball of wax revolves around Abraham being the Father of Righteousness for all three Abrahamic faiths.

Bible scholars have utterly destroyed the notion that the New Testament is anything but Christian propaganda. You cannot base your beliefs in Jesus or God on propaganda.

When I make claim to prophesy bearing I do so with factual evidence to back up my claim. God has given me two great Visions, each bearing the Spirit of Christ but in different ways, and these Visions have already demonstrate spiritual power. What man of God have you heard of in recent history who has been honored by over 500 Nazareans in Israel? What man of God have you heard of in recent history who has been given a vision of a Native American Spirit Woman bearing the Spirit of Christ which matches the Lakota people's prophesy of the Return of White Buffalo Calf Woman and now that white man of God has become grandfather to children who are direct descendants of Sitting Bull, the Lakota's most honored spiritual warrior?

Who else has God given the truth of Abraham to? No one else. Not to Paul, not to Muhammad, not Joseph Smith, not the Bab, not the Seventh Day Adventists, not Christian Science, but Arielmessenger and Biomystical Christianity. I'm it. The one God has put on point duty to point the way forward for the Spirit of Christ into the New Millennium. All the old curses and warnings and everything claiming spiritual authority in the Old and New Testaments is now stripped of that authority. God's fed up with the abuses of the Abrahamics so God's changing the game.

Now the new Religion of Peace takes the place of the old Abrahamic religions that have only brought the world religious warfare. No more books, no more priests and prophet's dirty looks.

[Netopalis]

Your post is mostly propaganda. You claim to be making an incontrovertable factual claim, however you fail to back up that claim with meaningful evidence. I further suggest that you keep this in the topic that you already started on it and don't derail another thread.

dthmstr:
In the clothing angle, I was referring to people who are unsaved and visiting the church. Also, this particular incident wasn't even revealing clothing. The girl in question was a goth, one which several of us had been witnessing to, and we were all rather pleased when she accepted our invitation to come to church..

[arielmessenger]

Quote by: Netopalis Your post is mostly propaganda. You claim to be making an incontrovertable factual claim, however you fail to back up that claim with meaningful evidence. I further suggest that you keep this in the topic that you already started on it and don't derail another thread. dthmstr: In the clothing angle, I was referring to people who are unsaved and visiting the church. Also, this particular incident wasn't even revealing clothing. The girl in question was a goth, one which several of us had been witnessing to, and we were all rather pleased when she accepted our invitation to come to church..

for my claims can be found in my Biomystical Christianity book online in chapters The End of Abraham, The Paxcalibur Story, and the Vision of Christ Josephine.
The Prodigal God
Story of Paxcalibur
Vision of Christ Josephine

Quote by: Netopalis Any thoughts?

In the early 1970s I spent some time in Peru with Padre Jose McKinnon, a 65 year old Catholic priest and Scot from New Westminster, British Columbia. He lived exactly as you described. He's a man, now passed away, of whom I have enormous respect. I'm an atheist--was then, am now==and that was of no concern of his. The fact we were making common cause to help people in a small Peruvian town, Lampa, was his only concern. He said to me, "You may not believe in God, but God believes in you."

Would that Christianity was as you describe, Netopalis. Much good could come of it. But, alas.

My friend was a Christian worthy of respect. Jesus would have liked him.

Regards
S.

[SoylentGreen]

sdbest You may not believe in God, but God believes in you."

In all the tales told where the gods have taken an interest in man. That man will have his house destroyed, his wife and children raped and murdered, his land stolen, his flocks will perish and his harvest will wither. Friends will deny him and his enemies will rejoice. And finally if he is lucky he will die a miserable and painful slow death as a martyr to his god.
So all in all it doesn't matter whether you believe in god the real trick is not to let god believe in you.

[Netopalis]

Odd....That doesn't seem to stack up with many cases in the Bible. Abraham, not really...Joshua definitely not. David certainly not. Job follows your pattern most closely, but everything which he lost was restored to him at the end of the story.

In fact, to which Biblical character are you referring, anyway?