the second coming

[Technosoul]

Originally posted by LDS,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LDS,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Paavo, What signs?

1. The fulness of the gospel restored and preached in all the world for a witness to all nations.

2. False Christs and false prophets, deceiving many.

3. Wars and rumors of wars, with nation rising against nation.

4. Earthquakes in divers places.

5. Famine and pestilence.

6. An overflowing scourge, a desolating sickness covering the land.

7. Iniquity abounding.

8. The whole earth in commotion.

9. Men’s hearts failing them.[/b][/quote]

I am sure you must be aware that such events have been happening all the time anyway, at least in some part of the world those events happen repeativly, in each generation we have had such events happening, no special indicators that would set another generation apart as being different then this one, in the past and perhaps not in the future. Technosoul.

[Technosoul]

Originally posted by Ralph38449, Alright I believe I can answer when, Once there is a one world order, and after the anti-christ has ruled for seven years. Right, or at least that is what I think is supposed to happen... And you can't rush an almighty, so how about when he damn feels like it.

According to the Bible (in the letters John wrote to the churches) he said "you know about the anti christ who is coming, and I tell you the spirit of the anti christ is already here among you". He wrote that letter a few thousand years ago. For some reason Christians tend to over look that that letter.

Also overlooked is what Jesus said about his predictions "some of you standing here, will not taste of the 2nd death, until all these predicitons are fullfilled". So he said those signs (earthquakes -etc) would take place within the lifetimes of those listening to his speech. That was a few thousand years ago.

Technosoul.

[Technosoul]

Just my point - they happen all the time in every generation, so how can those signs stand out as speical signs that will only happen in the latter days?

Jesus told his diciples, before I have spoken to you in parables and riddles, from from on on I will speak to you in plain talk.

And so why would he later speak to John in riddles and symoblic codes? If he said he would speak in plain talk form then onwards, which was before the times of John (the unknown John who wrote the revelations letters (book of..)? Sorry I do not know all the verse and chapter numbers. (so don't ask....).

Technosoul.

[Paul]

Salvation to our GOD which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb

{"Salvation to our GOD which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb"}??? --- Among christians, there is a lot of discussion about THE JUDGMENT to come, which is also referred to as the Second Coming. The big question is, who is going to welcome the Second Coming? Would it be the Western and/or Eastern Catholics, the Atheist, the Mormons, the Jehovah Wittness, the Amish, the Quakers? the Baptists, the Seven Day Advents, the Pentecostals, the Anglicans, the Mennonites, the Faith and/or Trinity Lutherans, the Hutterites, and the list goes on and on? There are over 1,000 Christian faith groups in North America alone. Are the Jewish people going to welcome the Second Coming, when as of yet they have not accepted the First Coming? What about the people of all the other religions of the world, are they going to welcome the Second Coming? Are the religious of any religion, denomination or sects going to welcome the Second Coming? From what is written, the kings of the earth and their armies and those that worship the beast will not welcome the Second Coming. When the First Coming came ---> Jesus was not received very kindly by the religious and powerful of his day. The chief priests and officers answered to Pilate, "We have a law, and by our law He ought to die, because He made himself the SON OF GOD" - (John 19:7).

When the Second Coming comes, our GOD which sitteth upon the throne, and the Lamb will come with wrath, because of "the Devil and Satan, who deceives THE WHOLE WORLD" - (Rev.12-9) "--- Woe unto you, scribes and Pharasees, hypocrites! for you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for you neither go in yourself, ---" - (Matt.23:13-33) When it is all done, the Devil/Satan will be bond a thousand years, --- that he should deceive the nations no more ---." - (Rev. 20:1-3)

There are four questions asked here, and if the Spirit of Truth is with you, the answers to these four questions will be revealed.

(1) - Who is the ONE that spoke to John saying, --- "I am the Alpha and Omega, ---" - (Rev.1:8) , "Fear not; I am the first and the last: ---" - (Rev.1:17-18)?
.
(2) - Who is the ONE that is sat upon the throne in verse - (Rev. 5:7)?

(3) - Who is the One (a Lamb) that came and took the book in verse Rev. 5:7?

(4) - Why is the Lamb that took the book and HIM that sitteth upon the throne going to come?

Before JESUS went to the FATHER, JESUS said, "These things I spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be in good cheer; I have overcome the world." - (John 16:33) --- "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but MY WORDS shall not pass away." - (Matt.Rev.24:35) --- "ALL POWER is given unto ME in heaven and earth" - (Matthew 28:18),

Who is the ONE that spoke to John saying, --- "I am the Alpha and Omega, ---" - (Rev.1:8) , "Fear not; I am the first and the last: ---" - (Rev.1:17-3:22)?

The ONE that introduced himself to John saying, --- "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending", saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. - (Rev.1:8) --- I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last; - (Rev. 1:11) --- "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore. - (Rev.1:17-18) --- "These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive." - (Rev.2:8) It is very obvious that the ONE who said, I am he that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore is JESUS because the FATHER never was dead.

Also the ONE that said, He that overcometh, to him will I give power over the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron;" --- even as I received of 'my Father'." - (Rev.2:27) --- I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before 'my Father', and before his angels." - (Rev.3:5) --- will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I overcame, and am set down with 'my Father' in his throne" - (Rev.3:21) is JESUS the Alpha and Omega because He said, " ---'my Father'---".

So my LORD GOD ALMIGHTY is JESUS, the ONE that said to John, ---"I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending", saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. - (Rev.1:8) --- "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore. - (Rev.1:17-18)

Before JESUS went to the FATHER, JESUS said' "ALL POWER is given unto ME in heaven and earth" - (Matthew 28:18), and after, JESUS the Alpha and Omega spoke to John about He that overcometh. After this John wrote, "AFTER THIS I LOOKED, AND BEHOLD, -------------". --- "--- Holy, holy, holy, LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, which was, and is, and is to come. "--- give glory and honour and thanks to HIM that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever". "--- fall down before HIM that sat on the throne, and whorship HIM that liveth for ever and ever, "--- Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: - (Rev. 4:1) - (Rev.4:8-11)

Some christians believe the ONE that is sat upon the throne in verses - (Rev.4:8-11), (Rev. 5:7), (Rev.5:13), (Rev.6:16), and (Rev. 7:10) is the FATHER, and the other christians believe that it was and is JESUS the Alpha and Omega that is sat upon the throne. HERE IS what John wrote, HE that sat upon the throne said, "--- I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end" - (Rev. 21: 5-7) Because JESUS overcame the world and ALL POWER is given unto JESUS in heaven and on the earth, they said, "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power."

So far from what is written the ONE that introduced himself to John saying, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end" is HE that sat upon the throne. JESUS the Alpha and Omega who is HE that sat upon the throne, was WORTHY to receive ALL GLORY and HONOUR and POWER from the FATHER. As JESUS said, "ALL POWER is given unto ME in heaven and earth" - (Matthew 28:18)

Who is the One (a Lamb), that came and took the book in verse Rev. 5:7?

From (Rev.1:17-18) to ( Rev.3:22), JESUS the Alpha and Omega, the Speaker I, spoke to John about He that overcometh, who JESUS will give power/authority over the nations; and He shall rule them with a rod of iron; --- even as JESUS received of his FATHER And JESUS will give him the morning star. - (Rev.2:26-28) He that 'shall rule them with a rod of iron' is the man child that 'shall rule all nations with a rod of iron' - (Rev. 12:5), and also He is the Lamb that came and took the book out of the right hand of HIM that sat upon the throne, and this Lamb shall rule them with a rod of iron - (Rev.19:15).

The Lamb that shall rule them with a rod of iron is the man child, who is also He that overcometh that JESUS spoke about to John.

John writes, "I wept much, because no man in heaven, nor in earth was found worthy to open, and to read the book, ----" - (Rev.5:4) Just before John wept, JESUS already introduced himself saying, " --- "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore. - (Rev.1:17-18)

John writes, "One of the elders saith unto me, Weep Not: BEHOLD, the Lion of the tribe of Juda,, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book" - (Rev. 5:5) --- "I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of throne, --- and in the midst of the elders, stood A Lamb as it had been slain" --- and He came and took the book out of the right hand of HIM that sat upon the throne" - (Rev. 5:6-7)

It is very apparent that this Lamb in the midst of throne IS NOT HE that sat upon the throne, the ONE who introduced himself to John saying, "I am Alpha and Omega ---"

"They sung A NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: - (Rev.5:9)

QUESTION! --- Who is this Lamb, that stood in the midst of throne, --- and in the midst of the elders, that came and took the book out of the right hand of JESUS the Alpha and Omega that sat upon the throne?

This Lamb is He that overcometh that JESUS the Alpha and Omega will grant to sit with HIM in his throne, even as JESUS overcame, and am set down with his FATHER in his throne" - (Rev.3:21

JESUS the Alpha and Omega said, "To Him that overcometh, I will write upon Him the name of my GOD," ---> ( his name is called THE WORD OF GOD ) and I will write upon Him MY NEW NAME." ---> ( I am Alpha and Omega, which is, and which was, and which is to come, ALMIGHTY. - Rev.1:8 ), who is also the ( LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, which was, and is, and is to come - Rev 4:8)

This Lamb had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself, and his name is called THE WORD OF GOD. --- he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron." - (Rev.19:13-16) This Lamb shall overcome them, for He is Lord of Lords, and King of Kings, and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful." - (Rev.17:14)

John writes, HE that sat upon the throne said, "BEHOLD, I make all things new." And HE said unto me, "Write: for these words are TRUE and FAITHFUL." And HE said unto me. "It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. --- He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his GOD, and He shall be my Son." - (Rev. 21: 5-7).

JESUS the Alpha and Omega, HE that sat upon the throne said, He that overcometh shall be my Son , and I will be his GOD. This Son is the Lamb that they sung A NEW SONG saying, "Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof." JESUS, the SON of GOD shall be the FATHER of his Son who shall be The Son of Man, the Lamb to come. As JESUS is the SON of his FATHER, this Lamb shall be the Son of HE that sat upon the throne. The Son of Man to come shall testify of JESUS, and glorify JESUS, and also, He shall receive of JESUS and the FATHER and show it unto you.

"--- hide us from the face of HIM that sitteth upon the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:" - (Rev.6:16)

--- "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto HIM that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." - (Rev.5:13)

"--- Salvation to our GOD which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. - (Rev. 7:10) ---

"For the Lamb which is the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and GOD shall wipe away all tears from their eyes." - (Rev.7:17)

JESUS spoke to the multitude, and to his disciples saying, " --- Ye shall NOT SEE ME henceforth, till ye shall say, "Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lord." - (Matt.23:1-39) He that cometh in the name of the LORD is the Lamb, the King to come. The Lamb to come will come in JESUS' NEW NAME, which is LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, who is HIM that sitteth upon the throne. Since JESUS went to the FATHER, if anyone angel or man said, or says to anyone, " I am Jesus the Christ, or, He is here, or there ", believe them NOT.

There is a very important reason why JESUS said, "Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, "I am the Christ," and will deceive many.- (Matt.24:4-5) Also JESUS warned, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive 'The Very Elect'." - ( Matt. 24:24 ). ( CHRIST ---> the anointed one, the Greek name for Messiah ) Many have been deceived ("the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world" - (Rev.12-9) Shortly after JESUS went to the FATHER, Satan the Beast came as an angel of blinding light saying, "I am Jesus the Christ" ( The Mystery Christ ) on the Damascus road to deceive the whole world, if it were possible. Satan came as the angel Gabriel to Muhammad in 610 A.D. Satan came as angel of light to Joseph Smith in 1823 A.D., and there are other false prophets that have established religions in the world.

Because false Christs, and false prophets could NOT deceive Him, He, 'The Very Elect' that came and took the book, and was found worthy to open the book. The Lamb will come in the name of, and with, HIM that sitteth upon the throne, who is ALPHA and OMEGA, the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, the name granted to JESUS from the FATHER. JESUS the Alpha and Omega speaking about He that overcometh said, He shall rule them with a rod of iron" --- "I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee." --- "I will write upon him the name of my GOD, and the name of the city of my GOD, --- and I will write upon him MY NEW NAME." He that overcometh even as JESUS overcame is the One that came and took the book, and was found worthy to open the book, and to read the book. - (Rev.3:21) and (Rev.5:7).

Before Jesus went to the Father, Jesus said, "I will pray the FATHER, and He shall give you another comforter, that He may abide with you forever;" (John 14:16), --- "But when the comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the FATHER, even the Spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the FATHER, "He shall testify of ME." - (John 15:26)
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"He shall glorify ME: for He shall receive of mine, and the FATHER
hath are mine: therefore said I, that He shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you." - (John 16:14-15).

"He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:"
"Of Sin, because they believe not on ME;
Of Righteousness, because I go to my FATHER, and ye SEE ME NO MORE.
Of Judgment, because the Prince of this world is judged." - (John 16:7-11)

Jesus said, --- "Nevertheless I tell you; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you." (John 16:7)

He that overcometh shall testify of JESUS, and glorify JESUS. He that overcometh, who is the Lamb will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. Also Jesus said, "except those days should shortened, there should NO FLESH be saved: but for the Elect's sake those days shall be shortened." - (Matt.24:22) From what John wrote here, "--- every creatrue which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto HIM that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." - (Rev.5:13), the coming of HIM that sitteth upon the throne and the Lamb will have a GREAT IMPACT (spiritual earthquake) on the earth.

Let us be thankful for JESUS' PROMISE, because HE prayed to the FATHER for another Comforter to come, who is 'The Very Elect', who was found worthy to take the book, and to read the book. Because this the days of TOTAL ANNIHILATION will not come.

JESUS said, "When the Son of Man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of his glory: ( "--- will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne" - (Rev.3:21)" And before Him shall be gathered all nations; and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And He shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come you blessed of my FATHER, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". - (Matt. 25:31-46)

The Son of Man is He that overcometh. ---> "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his GOD, and He shall be my Son." - (Rev. 21: 5-7).

JESUS the Alpha and Omega, the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY said, "BEHOLD, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." - (Rev.22:12)

JESUS said, "Peace I will leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid." John wrote, "They sung A NEW SONG saying, "Thou art worthy to take the book, and to read the book, and to open the seals thereof."

The kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, and his Christ; 'his anointed One and his Son, the Lamb' and he shall reign for ever and ever. - (Rev. 11:15)


Peace be with you, Paul

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by theophysics, Make sure you get the order right of the second coming. Remember that the Anti-Christ will rule first so he'll trick the world to gain power and then he will do as he wishes. There is debate after that to the events following Armageddon. Pre-tribulationists and Post-tribulationists; Personally I believe in pre-tribulation because of how it is worded in the bible. But the rapture and second coming is something that needs to be handled with more delicasey.

Many Christians speak of the second coming in ways that they know exactly how it will or will not happen and the Bible is not that clear. The Book of Revelation is a vague and highly interpretive document and it is likely that the meaning of the prophesies are not all that clear.

The Baha'i Faith believes it has already happened.

[SlySpy]

The christians of the era following jesus' "ressurection" claimed that the second coming was to come during their lifetime. The same went for the christians that lived during both world wars. What makes today any different?

[Dadoo]

The 2nd coming is intrapersonal, in my estimate. A friend calls it the tension of the opposoites, the way things happen twice- a once naughty, a once nice. In the heart and mind, one may experience a full sense of Christ's myth. The 2nd coming of a saviour is when the saved, or soon to be, recognize their role in the grand drama. First a saviour arrives, and teaches of a new way of thinking, living and communing with a grand, exciting mothering principa, philosophy. Then, after the surprise wears off, 2000+ years, someone may actually hear what Christ overtly implied. You and He are twins of a sort. If true, only non-recognition of self will breed doubt. If untrue, then the man was a trickster, or you are syill caught in denial of the person in your mirror.
If the 2nd coming is an Antichrist, apparently then we are mistaken. If it is not noted or seen, we are mistaken. If it is a bad soul with malevolence, obviously we are mistaken. Mistakes are harmless in this way, and observation alone has little impact upon external affairs. Internally however, that grail is obtained when the two facets of self, the judged and the judge, for instance, face each other and finally recognise fusion, identicality and in that moment, Inevitablity, Eternity.

Loving to share, Dadoo

[Technosoul]

Dadoo, now that is what really is happening - past, present, future. We have those two interpretations - the common one is about some physical return of a person and a host of angels - sort of like expectations that the Mothership Alantis was not destroyed in the great flood but that we shall see the great city again as a floating island in the sky - decending again to the earth.

Then we have the option that you suggested, that the return will be in the nature of a spirit of truth, not really all materialistic but more like a vision, revelation, or as what might be called the "christ consciousness" that builds it's "temple" in the mind of those open to recieve the kingdom come.

Aka - the new attitude and related motive of the collective mind set.

Later I will return to this "old topic" you found and add some more of my ideas to the topic.

technosoul.

[Dadoo]

Technosoul,
Therefore, we may infer that the second coming has occurred for some already, indeed, some had a second coming even before Christ's arrival (tee hee). After another false prophet is crucified, they will clamor for a third coming and then a fourth ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
Laws cannot be broken! Prophecy is not fulfilled until it is, to the letter all translations aside. If it is close, but not exactly true to scriptural prophecy than it is another simple misrecognition. If a law is broken aaginst expectation and set, then that was no law!
Magician is dead! Logician has arrived in it's stead. Keep the shit in your pants and the Word in your head.
Dadoo

[crayola]

"Keep the shit in your pants and the words in your head".

Good advice, because the resurrection occurred while Jesus was still alive. Matthew 11:5 provides proof of the dead "raised up" already. How do Christian fundamentalist Right Wingers explain this away? They deny it and believe in the horror stories pumped out by popular writers who instill fear into the minds of the gullable.

Jesus was sent to raise up Jews to fight against other Jews. Namely the Pharisees are the opponents in this story with the Sadducees and Herod as conspirators with them. These were called "certain of the Jews" which Paul implied as that body of men called "Anti-Christ".

Two bodies in those days. One called "the body of Christ" meaning Jewish followers of Jesus; and one called "the body of Anti-Christ" meaning those Jews who hated Jesus and his followers. The Anti-Christ body of Jews were said to be "of their father the devil".

Things get interesting when you examine the infighting among the sons of Jacob. And all the fuss over power and control at Jerusalem.

[pit bull]

what proof woud you wont ov the second comming , if you know should you say and if poeple know will he be killed like before when the work was nealy done and will the human race listen to whats to be done soon

[deedee]

Quote by: Paul THE SECOND COMING? --- Among christians, there is a lot of discussion about the Second Coming. The big question is, who is going to welcome the Second Coming?

Those who believe that Jesus Christ is their Savior and those who believe in Him.

Even those that do not attend church but read at home and believe in Him.

[oranged]

Quote by: bishop i'm a catholic, and i believe that one day, there will be some sort of second coming.. what that means exactly, i wouldn't know for certain. most christian fundamentalists believe that we're going to have some battle of armaggedon (probably framed with the usage of nuclear weapons) - i don't necessarily believe that has to be the case. faith alone will not save anyone's soul in my eyes. and i'm not entirely certain that faith is necessary to be saved - as jesus's death saved the faithful and unfaithful alike. good works (aspiring to be good like jesus - like mother theresa and the like) is what will save one's soul.

Is Mahatma Gandhi another example?

[Gilligan]

I saw something on History last weekend that said that the Bible never mentions the "rapture".

[ghost_stalker]

THE SECOND COMING? --- Among christians, there is a lot of discussion about the Second Coming. The big question is, who is going to welcome the Second Coming?

I will welcome it, with a .22 aimed at the motherfuckers head!