God Does Not Exist Because .........

[Kuldeep]

[quote=LogicaLunatic]

Perhaps not always faith on god but definitely faith in general. Belief in something despite a severe lack of evidence or even counter evidence is Evil.

QUOTE]

Agreed blind faith is evil in some cases. This blind faith has been made so bad by crooked human selfish mind. But then, why you hate faith so much. Faith, I feel is the base of existence of everything e.g. family, society and infact whole animal kingdom exist on faith and faith only. Let me give few example of faith in day to day working, which would confirm that without faith nothing can exist.

Let us start with husband wife relationship, the foundation of world society is based on faith of husband in wife and that of wife in husband. Then comes their child who believes blindly his/her mother by way of faith only when she tells who eaxctly father is. Going little further later the child has blind faith in its parents. Parents are feeding practically everything into the child's brain, including his identity viz. his Name. Then comes student teacher relationship at initial stages. Child develops more faith in teacher than his parents. If mother or father would tell child no, this is wrong, you should solve any home assignment in a particular way, he won't agree and would tell teacher has said that it is to be done the other way. Now, suppose an issueless couple adopt a child, When this child grows he has a blind faith that his parents are those only, who in fact are not. It is different, later he may come to know from some source the real story. Till then, his blind faith that couple are his true parents is good enough for him and parents. All this my dear is due to blind faith. Sameway, you pick up any day to day dealings in society, you may find faith is the base of everything. Business, scientific development, friendship, relatives, neighbors, inter-state relations, inter country relations or, any human relations for that matter and what not all exist due to faith.

Coming to low graded animals. See, pet Dog, how much faith he has in his master. I do not see their mutual faith is doing any harm either to dog or to master!!!

What I want to stress upon is that without blind faith nothing can exist. When we do not have any solution from any natural or scientific source for a tedious problem, we are compelled to develop blind faith in something extra source, termed as super-natural power. This is why, for logical reasons, various faiths and religion have come into existence. :confused:

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: As'rek I have a questin, but how do you explain "miracles" that seem often in certain religions. Also, your pretty much saying htat you don't believe in "scriptures" (The bible etc). So, I would like to hear your ideas/theories about where those books came from

I liked your question, but not the answer you got from Starboy! What you call a miracle?
A miracle is some act which a normal human being won't be able to do. You might have witnessed number of magics shows which appear to be real and beyond practice of a common man. But when the trick behind the magical act is revealed by the magician, act becomes clear as common only. We then understand, in fact, there was no magic in it but a simple trick which could not be understood without explanation. The way magicians master few feats and convince spectators, sameway there are persons who control their mind (grasping power) and can perceive things which are not possible for common man. For example, they can fore tell future event of somebody's life. This is exactly the way Russian won't understand Chinese language and chinese won't understand English. It is question of striving to learn an art and practice it.

A person who has above normal cababily to perform extra ordinary act need not come and explain to Starboy and get a certificate from him that he is not terming his extr-ordinary act as Hoax. The way, we have various levels of intellect having capabilities to varying degrees, there are also persons with minds having superior capabilities. They are like you and me physically but, mentally much much superior. If their friends or relatives are jording down their experiences of the person as bio-graphies. After few centuries time lapse, their act would be termed as Hoaxes, which is not correct.

My answer to your question is that old scriptures are out come of first hand information of people lived that time. The possibility of incorporation of incorrect information or modification of orginal events is there due to pressure and prjudice of later generation's authority. This is a problem which could not be avoided and hence different religion beliefs have been possibly developed. But then, to know the absolute reality is our right and nobody can snatch it from you. Good luck to you in your this endeviour!!!

[Savant]

With what a God is supposed to be... why can't the lack of a God be evidence of the non existance of a god? I mean, it's easy to prove that kitchen knives exist, because if you know what a kitchen knife is, you can go to your kitchen and lok for it. And there it is!

God's are supposed to be powerful entities that are obcessed with humans. They get involved in our wars, our politics, etc. IE God would show up during many events all over the world, or at least send ethereal minions like angels.

If no kitchens in the world had a kitchen knife, it would be proof there was no such thing assa kitchen knife. Thusly if no god is to found anywhere he should be....

[LetThereBe]

Quote by: Savant With what a God is supposed to be... why can't the lack of a God be evidence of the non existance of a god? I mean, it's easy to prove that kitchen knives exist, because if you know what a kitchen knife is, you can go to your kitchen and lok for it. And there it is! God's are supposed to be powerful entities that are obcessed with humans. They get involved in our wars, our politics, etc. IE God would show up during many events all over the world, or at least send ethereal minions like angels. If no kitchens in the world had a kitchen knife, it would be proof there was no such thing assa kitchen knife. Thusly if no god is to found anywhere he should be....

Personally, I see creation as evidence of a creator. We may have not seen the "kitchen knife" but we have seen its effects. At this time science inadequately explains the creation of the universe (especially the origion of life) so I believe it is rational to turn to a supernatural explanation without a working naturalistic model.

Personally, I like to think of God as being a four dimensional being. I have no evidence for this (I think there is a verse that mentions four dimensions: breadth, height, lenght, and depth of God, but I'm not sure). It explains how He can be infinitely larger than anything, and how the whole universe cannot contain Him, but how He can reveal Himself in so many ways shapes and forms. Plus, it would be easy to see how He could be hidden from sight. Imagine yourself a "three dimensional god" ruling over a two dimensional universe. Though a circle have a dimension of 1000 miles, you are still larger, because it lacks depth, and therefore volume. Similarly, the entire two-dimensional plane, though it might go on for infinity, could not contain you. You could reveal yourself as multiple shapes or forms by putting a certain part of yourself into that plane of existence. You could be a handprint, a cirle, or whatever. If you were amorphous, you could reveal yourself any way you want. Yet you could be a hundredth of an inch from one of your two-dimensional beings, and they could never know or guess you were there. It would seem pretty possible to be able to see everything at once (though it would be well beyond the capabilities of the human mind to process and store all this knowledge. So why not a fourth dimension (of course I mean of space, I'm not really counting time here) It would leave an infinty of room for a physical heaven and hell. All angels, ghosts, demons, God you name it could just be fourth dimensional activity showing itself here. Plus, this silly theory of mine has the added benefit of being impossible to prove wrong.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: melpomene The entity known as "God" doesnt exist. "God" was created many a millenium ago so that we would not feel so alone and isolated in the universe.

Nobel for you :-)))
Am I to understand that you are Nietzsche's successor ?

[bseagle]

Quote by: Milton Bradley As the story goes, man was getting along well, too well, and God interfered at the Tower of Babel, and God mixed up the languages. Man has been in conflict ever since, as was God's intention. (omnipotent, right?) So should God not bear the responsibility of man being incapable of getting along with his fellow man? To me, it just seems like common sense to ask that since God was responsible for the mixing up of the languages, should He not be resonsible for the results? These are the fruits of His labor. I think that God really must not care enough about non-Jews to provide an accurate, dependable translation of the rules you need to gain entrance into Heaven. The chosen tongue has died, and been resurected, the message translated, and confused, the intent watered down, and one could argue largely disreguarded all these years later. But, again, who initiated this move in the wrong direction? Hmmm, I believe it was God Himself, was it not? P.S. This is my continuing problem with the bible. The writers are always indicating where the problem starts, but somehow man always has to suffer, or bear the brunt of the responsibility of God's actions. This re-occurs again, and again in the bible. (God created Satan, God cast Him out of Heaven, God gave Satan power over man, and Earth, God sends one mans army to kill another group of men, etc, etc, etc...) Like all conflicts, it is easier to go to the root problem, and solve it, rather than attempt to correct all of the problems that have arisen since the great divide.

What you failed to understand from the Towers of Babyl is that God instructed the people to disburse throughout the world and they refused to do so. So he made their languages different so that it would do them no good to be huddled altogether. It wasn't just God saying "I think I'll make them talk differently." There was a reason for it.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: bseagle What you failed to understand from the Towers of Babyl is that God instructed the people to disburse throughout the world and they refused to do so. So he made their languages different so that it would do them no good to be huddled altogether. It wasn't just God saying "I think I'll make them talk differently." There was a reason for it.

I understand the point made, but I don't see how any of what I said is in error because of the point you made. Fundamentally, God, being omnipotent, knew the outcome His actions would have on the system, and He saw it was good, and He moved along. (At least if we can infer that is His method of operating, as is the case in the early books in the bible.)



The question I am left with after considering this, is, He must consider our current situation "good", or He might not have moved on to the next order of business. In other words, all the strife that exists strictly because of the differences in men is the result of His interference, and the result must be as He intended.


Another disturbing situation we have had foisted upon us by a benevolent, all caring, all knowing Creator who only wants what is best for us. Now I understand how the term "leap of faith" entered the vernacular. To believe contradictory things like that requires a leap of faith all right. The very definitions God applies to Himself are completely at odds with the observable results of the experiment.


If one were to attempt to phychoanalyze the position God puts Himself into, well, perhaps I won't go there, but, He just doesn't seem to be the sort of chap I'd find myself wanting to hang around with, if you know what I mean. No, I don't think I will be jumping through any hoops to get into that exclusive club. I am no eliteist.

[xyzer]

God is an expression which reflects that which humankind cannot explain or understand. Religion is humankinds attempt to affix responsibility for these unknowns. An example is,where does your being(spirit) go when your flesh dies? If you care get religion! :)
Religions direct and inform adherents as to why, but they also attempt to establish moral constraints in human behavior. Thus over the thousands of years of human development certain rules of societal conduct have been shown to prevent chaos and disorder. These showed up in the various rleigions around the world and have generally been translated into the laws of various societies!

Yes God exists in the minds of many! Those who think they understand the mysteries of existence don't need a God!

[Blue Orange]

Quote by: melpomene The entity known as "God" doesnt exist. "God" was created many a millenium ago so that we would not feel so alone and isolated in the universe.

Surely religion has been around for longer than that?
So perhaps organised religion has it somewhat wrong, but shouldn't it be conceded that even if it isn't the entity we have ascribed God to be, that as some level there was something that was self creating. Perhaps a little more backing up as opposed to a statement might make your ideas carry a little more weight?
Conceivably humanity has misinterpreted the true nature of "God" and even religious texts may be somewhat flawed, but why should we attempt to disprove what offers comfort to people? If you wish to feel alone and isolated so be it, but undermining the religious belief system of others won't change attitudes.

[Jack]

If you wish to feel alone and isolated so be it, but undermining the religious belief system of others won't change attitudes.

Perhaps I differ from other ahteists, but I have no interest in undermining anyone's belief system. Where I do draw the line is allowing their beliefs to interfere with my life. When the government heads toward theocracy and starts basing its domestic policies on the bible, that's when I become vocal in my opposition.

[SteveA]

Quote by: G. Adams I may have said it before, but whether God exists or not is irrlevant. It is more important that any such deity presents a reason and worthiness for us to worhsip him. Untill then he can exist or not, but he has no affect upon my life.

I subscribe to the Church of Adam.

[xyzer]

I pity atheists..they have no invisible means of support!:)

[Samildanach]

Perhaps not always faith on god but definitely faith in general. Belief in something despite a severe lack of evidence or even counter evidence is Evil.

I don't know about evil but deluded certainly. The religious live in a world of delusion which they actively encourage. They have neither the courage nor the means to live life without a fantasy to rely on. Because they utilise this fantasy they become dependent on it to the point where they would have a mental breakdown if they had to live without it. It would be akin to removing a cog from a running machine and have it collapse in on itself chewing itself up in the process.
anyone who is religious chould certainly be seeing a psychotherapist who specialises in abnormal psychology and substance dependence. God after all is addictive. Hes the big brother who will always be there for you, the mommy who is gone now but one day you will meet again in the sky full of roses and marshmallows. The fluffy bunny you once had as a child called boo boo....hes dead now but he will be in heaven too...rabbit heaven...because God makes a heaven for all creatures.
The point I am trying to make is the religious are delusional. some of them incredibly delusional, but we just don't have the monetary capacity in society to deal with the dysfunction. Too many are dependant on the illusion which can be basically equated with drug addiction, its just that God is the drug.

[Samildanach]

On the upside, I did finally manage to cure my gf of her addiction after showing her its possible to live without God. I simply asked her to stop praying and see if life changed for the better or worse after a year. It changed for the better. She now no longer believes and is well along the path to becoming a secular humanist like myself as she doesn't need the psychological crutch anymore. I call it a major victory on my part, it just shows there is hope for all the marginally insane, it also shows you just can't defeat logical argument.

[YourTokah]

For me, there is no data either way. I will live as a good person because I choose to, I will struggle for the rest of my life with my own spirtuality, then I will die and it will either matter or not. That's all, folks.

[Starboy]

Quote by: xyzer I pity atheists..they have no invisible means of support!:)

Oh sure. Being supported by a fairy tale of spooks and spirits is how one should live.

Starboy

[Dirty Name]

The concept of perpetual regression necessitates that something of a heretofore indescribable nature exists and caused the current state of the universe.

I choose to call that something "God." You may call it what you wish. But to believe that the world as we know it "simply is" all by itself is far more preposterous than believing in the existence of the Judeo-Christian God.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Dirty Name The concept of perpetual regression necessitates that something of a heretofore indescribable nature exists and caused the current state of the universe. I choose to call that something "God." You may call it what you wish. But to believe that the world as we know it "simply is" all by itself is far more preposterous than believing in the existence of the Judeo-Christian God.

And to just leap at an answer when the honest thing to say is "I don't know" is dishonest. It is not as if it is completely impossible for the universe to have no purpose. And it is not as if our current explanations of the universe have not just leapt ahead when we started considering the universe to be all thoughtless and all mechanical all the time. It is just something that you have a hard time considering as possible. You have a strong desire to anthropomorphize and you want to do it to the universe.

Starboy

[Samildanach]

I choose to call that something "God." You may call it what you wish

and so we return to flying spaghetti monsterism :)

[zynner]

God did not create Man; Man created God.