Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

fedfem · Oct 17, 2003, 02:21 pm

This was a hot topic during the Ten Commandments decision in Alabama a while back. Now, another official is spouting the same. I do believe we have been taking over by Christian Fanatics and regardless of whether you are christian or not, this should be unacceptable. Here is a report on the new Undersecretary of Defense. This is another freakin' Crusade. IMO

http://www.msnbc.com/news/980764.asp

The United States is in no way based on any religion.

Impenitent · Oct 17, 2003, 02:29 pm

oh sure it was based on judeo christian philosophy in its laws but it was based on freedom as well... but religions and freedom are anathema...

G. Adams · Oct 17, 2003, 02:30 pm

Whether the US is a Judeo-Christian nation is entirely irrelevant, as it is a secular state by the constitution. The make up of the nation has no bearing upon a liberal democracy.

Waychel · Oct 18, 2003, 09:48 pm

The philosophies that lead to the founding of our country were inspired by the writings of John Locke, who's works were Judeo-christian oriented. This is where I think most of the confusion comes from. However, the principles this country was founded on were very Jeffersonian in nature, being that many of our forefathers were deists and atheists themselves.

Regardless of if they were Christian or not, the men who founded this country had the experience and the foresight to see what our country would become if there was not a clear destinction made between religion and state. This is why one of the articles in our constitution quite plainly states that seperation should never be infringed upon, as religion could and would undermine the government and the people as it has done in the past.

So regardless of what people believe this country is, or believe it should be, we are not Judeo-christian. Unfortunately, because Christianity is the majority religion of this country, it has already made some impression on state and national levels thanks to the influence of two Great Awakenings.

fedfem · Oct 19, 2003, 02:22 am

Good Post, Waychel!

[ÄK]LËGÖLÄS · Nov 1, 2003, 11:51 pm

umm no bad post WAyChel

This country no matter what way you look at it has been heavily influenced by Judeo Christian beliefs..Period. Would i say that we are a Judeo-Christian nation?
Depends...the majority in this nation has always been Christians.

55 of the original 60 signers were devout Christians, 2 of the other 5 probably were, and one converted in his olde ryears ( Ben Franklin) of the other 3 Thomas Jefferson considered himself a Christian, but not in the traditional sense. The entire nation was made up of Christians. Christian values is wha tformed the basis of our form of government. Specifically I Samuel and God's warnign angainst having a king. The liberty mentality was born of and spread by Christian ministers in the colonies, who felt that men should not be subservient to anyone but God. Our system was base on this belief--that the people would hold final authority over those serving in the government. It was called self-government at the time. It was born in the church and spread from there. No one who studies the history can deny the Christian roots of America. Only a fool tries to do so. But if you say that they believed that government and religion didn't mix you are right. One always corrupts the other.

Every time someone says they were all deists they point to the same 5 guys--Thomas Jefferson, Paine, Ben Franklin, etc. That's because only those 5 were deists. There were 60 people who signed the Declaration. No athiest ever quotes John Adams for instance.

The government was not set up as a Christian government, but to deny the fact the entire nation was overwhelmingly Christian is foolish and revisionist.

laserkid · Nov 17, 2003, 05:01 pm

Yes how DARE a general expose religious views in church! What a bastard! We should burn him at the steak! How DARE we let a christian expose his views in church, at that how did an EVIL christian get to be a general, we all know all Christians are a bunch of morons!

white rice · Nov 17, 2003, 05:44 pm

Every President has been Christian. The biggest anomaly was JFK who many thought would hand over the White House to the Pope.

Even though there is a seperation of powers, the original intent was to uphold the equity of Christian denominations over another. The Mormons who weren't considered a legitimate Christian sect were driven out of state by the US Army and was grudgingly accepted once they prospered in Utah. So all of the original intents and mindet for freedom of religion was with a Christian eye.

Various legislation are enacted with the morals in principles of Christianity. Pornography and censorship is one. The Second Great Awakening provided Prohibition. Manifest Destiny was justification for an unprovoked war with Mexico.

Today, I believe the nation is still Christian minded even if its influence has waned for whatever reasons. While it's social climate is always evolving, there are still many signs out there.

RebelWithanAK · Nov 17, 2003, 06:46 pm

JFK was Christian, albeit Catholic.

Abraham Lincoln, however, is one president who's marked at being rather ambivalent about Christianity and religion in general.

But regardless, while it's not direct (you can't say God mandated you to do this policy or that, we still do have a separation on paper), it is indirect, as we can plainly see with Bush's crusade, with Reagan's comments on AIDS, with Carter's comments on charity, with JFK's policies on abortion, with Eisenhower's "Under God", with...

cheesemage · Nov 17, 2003, 09:53 pm

Clinton's unchristan actions :).

I don't think we are a Judeo-Christan nation, rather some leaders tend to lean toward having the tendancies of leaders of Judeo-Christan Nation leaders. Perhaps our nation has roots in its philosphies, but now with the climate of our society, thats going to be moot very soon if you look at how rapidly things are progressing(or degenerating, depending on your view point) and as long as our principles of Freedom and seperation of church and state hold fast, our course to being a Nation of all peoples will continue.

Oct 17, 2003, 02:29 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	oh sure it was based on judeo christian philosophy in its laws but it was based on freedom as well... but religions and freedom are anathema... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Oct 17, 2003, 02:30 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	Whether the US is a Judeo-Christian nation is entirely irrelevant, as it is a secular state by the constitution. The make up of the nation has no bearing upon a liberal democracy. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Oct 18, 2003, 09:48 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Waychel Supercalifragilistic Posts: 431	The philosophies that lead to the founding of our country were inspired by the writings of John Locke, who's works were Judeo-christian oriented. This is where I think most of the confusion comes from. However, the principles this country was founded on were very Jeffersonian in nature, being that many of our forefathers were deists and atheists themselves. Regardless of if they were Christian or not, the men who founded this country had the experience and the foresight to see what our country would become if there was not a clear destinction made between religion and state. This is why one of the articles in our constitution quite plainly states that seperation should never be infringed upon, as religion could and would undermine the government and the people as it has done in the past. So regardless of what people believe this country is, or believe it should be, we are not Judeo-christian. Unfortunately, because Christianity is the majority religion of this country, it has already made some impression on state and national levels thanks to the influence of two Great Awakenings. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Nov 17, 2003, 05:01 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
laserkid Molten Ash Location: Sore Wa Himitsu Desu Posts: 80	Yes how DARE a general expose religious views in church! What a bastard! We should burn him at the steak! How DARE we let a christian expose his views in church, at that how did an EVIL christian get to be a general, we all know all Christians are a bunch of morons! "That is a Secret." -Xellos

Nov 17, 2003, 05:44 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
white rice Igneous Magma Posts: 372	Every President has been Christian. The biggest anomaly was JFK who many thought would hand over the White House to the Pope. Even though there is a seperation of powers, the original intent was to uphold the equity of Christian denominations over another. The Mormons who weren't considered a legitimate Christian sect were driven out of state by the US Army and was grudgingly accepted once they prospered in Utah. So all of the original intents and mindet for freedom of religion was with a Christian eye. Various legislation are enacted with the morals in principles of Christianity. Pornography and censorship is one. The Second Great Awakening provided Prohibition. Manifest Destiny was justification for an unprovoked war with Mexico. Today, I believe the nation is still Christian minded even if its influence has waned for whatever reasons. While it's social climate is always evolving, there are still many signs out there. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

Oct 17, 2003, 02:21 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	This was a hot topic during the Ten Commandments decision in Alabama a while back. Now, another official is spouting the same. I do believe we have been taking over by Christian Fanatics and regardless of whether you are christian or not, this should be unacceptable. Here is a report on the new Undersecretary of Defense. This is another freakin' Crusade. IMO http://www.msnbc.com/news/980764.asp The United States is in no way based on any religion.

Oct 19, 2003, 02:22 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	Good Post, Waychel!

Nov 1, 2003, 11:51 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
[ÄK]LËGÖLÄS Molten Ash Location: Boston Posts: 40	umm no bad post WAyChel This country no matter what way you look at it has been heavily influenced by Judeo Christian beliefs..Period. Would i say that we are a Judeo-Christian nation? Depends...the majority in this nation has always been Christians. 55 of the original 60 signers were devout Christians, 2 of the other 5 probably were, and one converted in his olde ryears ( Ben Franklin) of the other 3 Thomas Jefferson considered himself a Christian, but not in the traditional sense. The entire nation was made up of Christians. Christian values is wha tformed the basis of our form of government. Specifically I Samuel and God's warnign angainst having a king. The liberty mentality was born of and spread by Christian ministers in the colonies, who felt that men should not be subservient to anyone but God. Our system was base on this belief--that the people would hold final authority over those serving in the government. It was called self-government at the time. It was born in the church and spread from there. No one who studies the history can deny the Christian roots of America. Only a fool tries to do so. But if you say that they believed that government and religion didn't mix you are right. One always corrupts the other. Every time someone says they were all deists they point to the same 5 guys--Thomas Jefferson, Paine, Ben Franklin, etc. That's because only those 5 were deists. There were 60 people who signed the Declaration. No athiest ever quotes John Adams for instance. The government was not set up as a Christian government, but to deny the fact the entire nation was overwhelmingly Christian is foolish and revisionist.

Nov 17, 2003, 06:46 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	JFK was Christian, albeit Catholic. Abraham Lincoln, however, is one president who's marked at being rather ambivalent about Christianity and religion in general. But regardless, while it's not direct (you can't say God mandated you to do this policy or that, we still do have a separation on paper), it is indirect, as we can plainly see with Bush's crusade, with Reagan's comments on AIDS, with Carter's comments on charity, with JFK's policies on abortion, with Eisenhower's "Under God", with... . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Nov 17, 2003, 09:53 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
cheesemage Molten Ash Posts: 57	Clinton's unchristan actions :). I don't think we are a Judeo-Christan nation, rather some leaders tend to lean toward having the tendancies of leaders of Judeo-Christan Nation leaders. Perhaps our nation has roots in its philosphies, but now with the climate of our society, thats going to be moot very soon if you look at how rapidly things are progressing(or degenerating, depending on your view point) and as long as our principles of Freedom and seperation of church and state hold fast, our course to being a Nation of all peoples will continue.