Is the Universe Creating God?

The notion of a god--or supernatural being--creating the Universe is unsupportable with any of the available evidence. Even less supportable is the idea that any particular religion's god was the mythical Creator.

However, is the Universe creating a god? Or, becoming a god?

We humans are not apart from the Universe. We are a part of it, as are black holes, stars, planets, time, energy, and dark matter.

However, we--as "intelligent" life--are somewhat self-aware, which means the Universe is becoming self-aware, because we are part of the Universe.

Through us--and perhaps other intelligent life in the Universe--the Universe is learning about itself. It is even creating new elements that only exist because humans (in the form of high energy physicists) have created them--they do not appear in Nature.

As we become more powerful (approaching omnipotence), as we acquire more knowledge (approaching omniscience) are we not becoming more and more like the gods imagined by humans?

Perhaps our notions of gods is, in fact, rooted in the Universe beginning to think--through the mechanism of us--what it could become.

Obviously, these are early days in the evolution of a self-aware Universe--if that's in fact what is happening. But, if we are the beginnings of the Universe become a god, shouldn't we act like the god in our mythologies? Namely shouldn't we strive to be all-loving, to know more, to use our power wisely?

Is the Universe becoming a god, and are we the parents of that God?

Regards
S.

[Suburbanite]

Why describe things that way? What good comes from it?

Quote by: Suburbanite Why describe things that way? What good comes from it?

If God created the Universe, we don't have many responsibilities and little purpose. If the Universe is becoming a god and we are a part of that process--perhaps the most important part--then what we do might decide the nature of that real god, and that gives us a real purpose, real responsiblity--without resorting to any supernatural notions.


Regards
S.

[arielmessenger]

Haven't I already posted God's Cosmic Plan here somewhere?

If not, please go to God's Cosmic Plan to see how Creation already evolved God out of humanity. This is the beginning of Christian humanism as opposed to secular humanism.

[Jack]

God's cosmic plan doesn't seem to understand the difference between ecology, the relationship between living creatures and their environment, and evolution, changes within a species.

I don't see how we could be considered the intelligence of the universe considering how short a time mankind has been around and will be around. Currently we're trapped on a single planet without the means to go anywhere else. If this planet were to be damaged too severly, our species could die off. Then where's the universe's intelligence coming from?

Quote by: Isherwood If this planet were to be damaged too severly, our species could die off. Then where's the universe's intelligence coming from?

If the Universe is subject to the same selective pressures as described by Darwin and natural laws as everything else which is likely, then becoming self-aware is not assured. As for "where's the universe's intelligence coming from?" if we die off, we cannot know or even "if" due to the the physical constraints imposed on us by various limits such as those imposed by the speed of light.

My point is that the physical evidence is more consistent with the hypothesis of the Universe creating a god, than a mythical god creating the Universe.

Regards
S.

[Jack]

Mankind is certainly responsible for the god meme to exist. Without our imagination and penchant for irrational, abstract thought, I suspect the notion of gods would never have come about.
Nearly every god hypothesis proposed is a natural extension of a certain culture and social construct. As far as we can tell, humans are the only animal that has a capacity for superstition. So I'd agree with your premise.

[gallo]

Quote by: sdbest If the Universe is subject to the same selective pressures as described by Darwin and natural laws as everything else which is likely,

Nonsense. The universe is not a population of self replicating organisms. It isn't subject to the same selective pressures as described by Darwin.

[Jack]

Through us--and perhaps other intelligent life in the Universe--the Universe is learning about itself.

I'll grant you, gallo, that this train of thought is purely philosophical, not scientific. It is consistent with some Eastern philosophies. But yes, evolution does not apply in this case.

[arielmessenger]

[quote=Isherwood;405906]God's cosmic plan doesn't seem to understand the difference between ecology, the relationship between living creatures and their environment, and evolution, changes within a species.

Prove your assertion or take it back. You make quite a few assertions about God and reality on these forum discussions that you cannot back up and are only so much verbage added to the airwaves.

You might try to sit down some day and realize your atheistic assumptions are as feeble an attempt to describe reality as any fundamentalist theist's. The only difference is you think 20th century science can explain everything while fundies think 1st century religious ideas explain everything. Future generations will find both of your beliefs absurd.

[Jack]

Prove your assertion or take it back

Simply read the first page of that site. The term ecological is used improperly. The author is describing an evolutionary process, not an ecological one. The author mentions nothing that could remotely be considered ecological.
The rest is simply your opinion, which you're entitled to, as I'm entitled to ignore it.

[SoylentGreen]

sdbest But, if we are the beginnings of the Universe become a god, shouldn't we act like the god in our mythologies?

The gods in our mythologies are really only a reflection of the society that created those gods. So in a sense we do act like the gods, Petulant, childish, greedy and obsessed with our own glorification.

However, we--as "intelligent" life--are somewhat self-aware, which means the Universe is becoming self-aware, because we are part of the Universe.

anthropomorphization is what you mean. Humans have a strong need to describe inanimate objects with human chararistics, but this does not mean that those objects possess them.

arielmessenger You might try to sit down some day and realize your atheistic assumptions are as feeble an attempt to describe reality as any fundamentalist theist's. The only difference is you think 20th century science can explain everything while fundies think 1st century religious ideas explain everything. Future generations will find both of your beliefs absurd.

Why do I get the feeling texasdave died and just got reincarnated

[Kuldeep]

One sect of Hinduism viz Shivaism has laid down in their scripture that every living being is GOD only; if and only if, it can come out of false idividualistic egoism or in other words, Individual Consciousness of existence. After coming out of that sense of individuality person gets converted into Universal Consciousness (GOD).Thus we can convert ourselves into GOD !

So, I would say universe is not creating GOD but humans have hypothetically created GOD as well as practically could get converted into GOD. On realisation, individual would find that the fact is, Universe is just one property of his ownself !!!

[arielmessenger]

Quote by: Isherwood Simply read the first page of that site. The term ecological is used improperly. The author is describing an evolutionary process, not an ecological one. The author mentions nothing that could remotely be considered ecological. The rest is simply your opinion, which you're entitled to, as I'm entitled to ignore it.

Isherwood, just admit it. You are so damn prejudiced against theistic thinking that you have to resort to denying the author's basic premise by using your very own rigid definition of the word "ecology" that the author purposely expanded. Ecology must include an evolutionary component because every living thing evolves in relationship to everything else.

So you didn't prove zip
except your own inability to read carefully.

[arielmessenger]

could you please give a rational reason why any person on earth would be atheistic?

Considering the fact that theistic thinkers have utterly dominated human social development with no signs of let up, the rational response to the question of God and spiritual reality would be the agnostic position--because no one on earth can prove there isn't a God or isn't a spiritual reality. Not a single human being can do this.

Ergo, to maintain the atheist position requires the same type of religious fanaticism it takes to maintain a fundamentalist religious mindset, i.e., atheism is an irrational response.

[ZNFYRH]

sdbest

Philosophically speaking, as the various energy and matter in the universe falls into some form of order through gravity and other unknown forces of attraction, I believe it will eventually reach a sort of critical alignment and suddenly become self-aware.

I think, at that time, the universe would be God. The only problem with that is that we, as humans, cannot control the individual cells and atoms of our bodies. Similarly, I don't think the self-aware universe would be able to control its parts.

Or... the other possibility is that if the universe eventually compresses into a Big Crunch, that singular split second of everything in existence being in the same place at the same time is when the universe is self-aware. And in being self-aware of the fact that it is completely alone, it "suicides" and Big Bangs again.

[CoffeeSaint]

Quote by: sdbest Obviously, these are early days in the evolution of a self-aware Universe--if that's in fact what is happening. But, if we are the beginnings of the Universe become a god, shouldn't we act like the god in our mythologies? Namely shouldn't we strive to be all-loving, to know more, to use our power wisely? Is the Universe becoming a god, and are we the parents of that God? Regards S.

Personally, I really like the theory. On the other hand, we are too small in scope to be considered the universe's god. We could be the gods of the Earth; we seem to be approaching that, though we'll have to perfect creation to go along with our mastery of destruction.

I would think that we should be moving towards loving all things on the Earth, but we can still be allowed our narrow-minded parochialism as long as we are only influential on our own little rock. That being the case, I see us more as household spirits than gods; caretakers of the earth. And I think that we have been moving toward this ideal, and will continue to do so. All-loving comes when we are connected to all things, which isn't yet. Knowledge before understanding, if you see what I mean.

Quote by: gallo Nonsense. The universe is not a population of self replicating organisms. It isn't subject to the same selective pressures as described by Darwin.

We know that life on this planet is subject to selective pressures, and all life is an integral part of the Universe. Life is not outside the Universe, not even intelligent, self-aware life. This means that some parts of the Universe are subject to selective pressure. We also see interactions of large forces changing energy and states of matter and time. Much of which is evolutionary--rather than catastrophic or revolutionary--in nature.

Regards
S.

Quote by: Isherwood I'll grant you, gallo, that this train of thought is purely philosophical, not scientific. It is consistent with some Eastern philosophies. But yes, evolution does not apply in this case.

Well, actually... It is scientific. While theistic beliefs are contrary to the known laws of the Universe. Nothing I'm suggesting is, which is why I posed the notion.

... and evolution does apply, because not only are we subject to evolution, but also we can now control our own evolution if we chose to do so. That means that the Universe--of which we are an integral part and the product of--is beginning to develop the capacity to control its own evolution. That doesn't mean it will, only that the potential exists for it do do so. And none of this conjecture offends any of the known natural laws of the Universe.


Regards
S.

Quote by: CoffeeSaint Personally, I really like the theory. On the other hand, we are too small in scope to be considered the universe's god.

I am not suggesting that we are the Universe's god. How can a part of something be the god of that same thing?

I'm suggesting that we as self-aware, intelligent life that is an integral part of the Universe may be the means--a modest start to be sure--through which the Universe becomes fully self-aware and able, as we are, to make choices about itself.

We are not too small in scope. As an analogy, consider that human beings start off as a sperm and an egg--hardly an auspicious beginning.

And consider that life on this planet started with carbon-based amino acids, likely the product of electrical activity and some carbon.

The idea that, as a part of the Universe, we are the "sperm and egg" or the seed "amino acid" of a self-aware Universe is not out of the realm of possibility, in my view.


Regards
S.