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Charlatan · Jun 30, 2007, 11:38 pm

"In Buddhism, any person who has awakened from the "sleep of ignorance" (by directly realizing the true nature of reality), without instruction, and teaches it to others is called a buddha. All traditional Buddhists agree that Shakyamuni or Gotama Buddha was not the only Buddha: it is generally taught that there have been many past Buddhas and that there will be future Buddhas too. If a person achieves this awakening, he or she is called an arahant. Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha, is thus only one among other buddhas before or after him. His teachings are oriented toward the attainment of this kind of awakening, also called liberation, or Nirvana.
Part of the Buddha’s teachings regarding the holy life and the goal of liberation is constituted by the "The Four Noble Truths", which focus on dukkha, a term that refers to suffering or the unhappiness ultimately characteristic of unawakened, worldly life. The Four Noble Truths regarding suffering state what is its nature, its cause, its cessation, and the way leading to its cessation. This way to the cessation of suffering is called "The Noble Eightfold Path", which is one of the fundamentals of Buddhist virtuous or moral life.
Numerous distinct groups have developed since the passing of the Buddha, with diverse teachings that vary widely in practice, philosophical emphasis, and culture. However, there are certain doctrines which are common to the majority of schools and traditions in Buddhism, though only Theravada regards all of them as central. About all Buddhists few valid generalizations are possible."
First thing I will go for here is the thing about rebirth. If you can't remember what you did in your previous life, but you are rewarded accordinly, then what is the point of being reincarnated at all? If someone is good, they die, they are rebord as a great eagle but cannot remember a thing, they are not the same soul as their soul has been altered. Any soul that is altered, by having memories removed or instilled - falsely I might add - is not reaping what they have sewn, so, this is not justice. What is it then? What controls this force of birth and rebirth? I see lots of inner searching, but I do not see any searching outside of the human being for answers as to whay and how or whatever things are as they are. This leads me to believe that the Buddha was introspective, peaceful maybe, but peace is not knowledge. Knowing how to make people peaceful will not build great things, and it will take a great while for people to gain this peace that he has attained, so while people seek their own fulfillment all the while - which is selfish - they are not looking around them.
If they were looking around them, beyond how to be happy and what happens when you die, then they might see that there is more to this universe than them and their futures. Of course they love each other because they love themselves, or that is how it works I have been told, but they do not have answers to why they are there or where they are going once this rebirth cylce stops. Is earth eternal? Apparently not, if science is to be believed, and their philosophies are a science, and being men of sciene they must see that this rebirth cycle, which is 'magical' will bottle up looking for some place to be 'reborn' to, right?
What if this planet is destroyed? Where will all the rebirth stuff go? Seeing as how they are so into themselves and being happy they will see that their existence will die out. So if it is not eternal, and souls are reborn, then where did the first souls come from? They must have been created by a Creator or creative forces, like a big bang, which leads us to gather that they are believers in God or evolutionists. The funny thing is evolutionists don't fear God often, or believe in magic that much, so where do they stand? One day nothing, the next rebirth cycle? I find this hard to believe that others would be so foolish as to believe this. Things need to be created, or evolve, but, can spirits evolve? Are we evolving our souls all the time as to become new things to the universe that will be reborn into new living things, is that the story? I really doubt it.
Also I do not like the idea of there not being a creator with scritpures, or, if they do believe in some Buddhas becoming gods, then they are not seen as eternal beings at all in their eyes. What good is it to be a god then, what does it mean to be a God? Apparently you recieve a 'life' of luxury and pleasures that you enjoy until you die and are reborn. If this is the way things work, then the Buddhism followers believe that there are laws to the universe just like I do, laws that bind it and keep it working, laws that while we don't know the calculations of, but we know the value. When did the Buddha decide that we are reborn? How did he decide we are reborn? He must be in touch with nature, but, not with other forces besides the living things?
What is life to the Buddha, a will to exist? For this reason everything that exists and resists is exerting a will to exists, so a rock that does not crumble when you try to crush it is living too, right? What is the difference? A heart, pumping blood, all these things are merely physical things that are the sum of atomic strucutre. The difference is in the mind, and in the mind of a living thing, from what I can gather things that need water to survive, things get a mind. This mind is partial geared to get more water. Dead things do not need water, so, is the rebirth cycle all about water? Is water the elemental froce behind life? Science says so, and now I have reasoned it so as well for myself. Life is about sucking up water, and the rebirth cycle revoleves around things that suck up water and you becoming a new thing that sucks up water, so, the God of Buddhism, and there should be one based on this, is water, as while it is not central to the rebirth cycle, it is essential for it being sustained. If there was no water the cycle would stop. If there was no planet the cycle would stop. If there was neither of these, there would be no Buddhists, and therefore the Buddhists should not only meditate alone or in groups but with the nature too.
What are the other aspects of Buddhism, Wiki wasn't that broad in giving things like strenghts and weaknesses.

neptewn · Jul 7, 2007, 05:58 pm

If someone is good, they die, they are rebord as a great eagle but cannot remember a thing, they are not the same soul as their soul has been altered. Any soul that is altered, by having memories removed or instilled - falsely I might add - is not reaping what they have sewn, so, this is not justice. What is it then? What controls this force of birth and rebirth?

I think your missing the point. Time is justice and your looking at justice as a mechanism to punish the individual, Buddhism does not see existance at an individual level an individual is simply the relighting of the torch.

I see lots of inner searching, but I do not see any searching outside of the human being for answers as to whay and how or whatever things are as they are. This leads me to believe that the Buddha was introspective, peaceful maybe, but peace is not knowledge. Knowing how to make people peaceful will not build great things, and it will take a great while for people to gain this peace that he has attained, so while people seek their own fulfillment all the while - which is selfish - they are not looking around them.

I think you are missing everything here. Your assumption is that knowledge some how equates to wisdom and morality. The atom bomb for example was great science (Knowledge), but it introduced great moral problems. While science may create a better bomb, Buddhist seek a better moral framework to judge it's use. I don't see how it is selfish to be concerned about knowledge unconstrained by ethical argument.

"It is all too evident that our moral thinking simply has not been able to keep pace with such rapid progress in our acquisition of knowledge and power," - Dalai Lama

If they were looking around them, beyond how to be happy and what happens when you die, then they might see that there is more to this universe than them and their futures. Of course they love each other because they love themselves, or that is how it works I have been told, but they do not have answers to why they are there or where they are going once this rebirth cylce stops. Is earth eternal?

With all this looking outside yourself, what is the answer to why we are here and is Earth eternal? And their goal is simply to end suffering.
1. There is Suffering Suffering is common to all.
2. Cause of Suffering We are the cause of our suffering.
3. End of Suffering Stop doing what causes suffering.
4. Path to end Suffering Everyone can be enlightened.

Apparently not, if science is to be believed, and their philosophies are a science, and being men of sciene they must see that this rebirth cycle, which is 'magical' will bottle up looking for some place to be 'reborn' to, right?
What if this planet is destroyed? Where will all the rebirth stuff go? Seeing as how they are so into themselves and being happy they will see that their existence will die out. So if it is not eternal, and souls are reborn, then where did the first souls come from? They must have been created by a Creator or creative forces, like a big bang, which leads us to gather that they are believers in God or evolutionists. The funny thing is evolutionists don't fear God often, or believe in magic that much, so where do they stand? One day nothing, the next rebirth cycle? I find this hard to believe that others would be so foolish as to believe this. Things need to be created, or evolve, but, can spirits evolve? Are we evolving our souls all the time as to become new things to the universe that will be reborn into new living things, is that the story? I really doubt it.

This isn't Christianity it's not stubborn, they'll bend if science can prove anything you say.

"My confidence in venturing into science lies in my basic belief that as in science so in Buddhism, understanding the nature of reality is pursued by means of critical investigation: if scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims." - Dalai Lama

Also I do not like the idea of there not being a creator with scritpures, or, if they do believe in some Buddhas becoming gods, then they are not seen as eternal beings at all in their eyes. What good is it to be a god then, what does it mean to be a God? Apparently you recieve a 'life' of luxury and pleasures that you enjoy until you die and are reborn.

Buddhism is a way of life which does not hinge upon the concept of a Creator God, you're looking at things through western eyes. Buddha was the first person to grasp the belief of Samsara and figure out how to end it. He taught that the only way for one to end their journey through Samsara was enlightenment. The only person who could stop one’s cycle of Samsara was the one who was traveling through their path. Some thought that Samsara is a place and thought that it was selfish for them to be able to stop it and leave the others behind. Most believe that Samsara is a process. In this process people are being born into new lives and since it happens to everyone and everyone has the ability to escape it, it is not selfish. Being said the process of Samsara may take a long time to complete and even with no time limit there may be some who can never actually escape this endless suffering

If this is the way things work, then the Buddhism followers believe that there are laws to the universe just like I do, laws that bind it and keep it working, laws that while we don't know the calculations of, but we know the value.

Yes, they believe in science and the physical world.

"Science shows us ways of interpreting the physical world, while spirituality helps us cope with reality. But the extreme of either is impoverishing. The belief that all is reducibnle to matter and energy leaves out a huge range of human experience:emotions, yearnings, compassion, culture. At the same time, holding unexamined spiritual beliefs-beliefs that are contradicted by evidence, logic and experience-can lock us into fundamental cages." - Dalai Lama

When did the Buddha decide that we are reborn? How did he decide we are reborn? He must be in touch with nature, but, not with other forces besides the living things?

When he achieved enlightenment and ended his suffering.

What is life to the Buddha, a will to exist?

The endless cycle of suffering.

For this reason everything that exists and resists is exerting a will to exists, so a rock that does not crumble when you try to crush it is living too, right? What is the difference?

A rock is not suffering.

A heart, pumping blood, all these things are merely physical things that are the sum of atomic strucutre. The difference is in the mind, and in the mind of a living thing, from what I can gather things that need water to survive, things get a mind. This mind is partial geared to get more water. Dead things do not need water, so, is the rebirth cycle all about water? Is water the elemental froce behind life? Science says so, and now I have reasoned it so as well for myself. Life is about sucking up water, and the rebirth cycle revoleves around things that suck up water and you becoming a new thing that sucks up water, so, the God of Buddhism, and there should be one based on this, is water, as while it is not central to the rebirth cycle, it is essential for it being sustained. If there was no water the cycle would stop. If there was no planet the cycle would stop. If there was neither of these, there would be no Buddhists, and therefore the Buddhists should not only meditate alone or in groups but with the nature too.

They are not seperate from nature so I don't understand your point. If the Buddhist doesn't exist, then they don't exist. Buddhism believes that though change is a factor inherent in nature, man's moral deterioration accelerates the process of change and brings about changes which are adverse to human well being and happiness

What are the other aspects of Buddhism, Wiki wasn't that broad in giving things like strenghts and weaknesses.

I am not a Buddhist I am an Atheist.. I spent a few summers living with Buddhist when I was growing up and I have read a few books on the subject, years ago. The majority of the information I provided is either from my understanding or information I researched. I'm sorry if I am inaccurate in anyway.

One other thing to note.. In the last 2,500 years there has never been any serious discord or conflict created by Buddhists that led to war in the name of this religion.

Jun 30, 2007, 11:38 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Charlatan Igneous Magma Location: Cape Town South Africa Posts: 304	Let's talk Buddhism "In Buddhism, any person who has awakened from the "sleep of ignorance" (by directly realizing the true nature of reality), without instruction, and teaches it to others is called a buddha. All traditional Buddhists agree that Shakyamuni or Gotama Buddha was not the only Buddha: it is generally taught that there have been many past Buddhas and that there will be future Buddhas too. If a person achieves this awakening, he or she is called an arahant. Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha, is thus only one among other buddhas before or after him. His teachings are oriented toward the attainment of this kind of awakening, also called liberation, or Nirvana. Part of the Buddha’s teachings regarding the holy life and the goal of liberation is constituted by the "The Four Noble Truths", which focus on dukkha, a term that refers to suffering or the unhappiness ultimately characteristic of unawakened, worldly life. The Four Noble Truths regarding suffering state what is its nature, its cause, its cessation, and the way leading to its cessation. This way to the cessation of suffering is called "The Noble Eightfold Path", which is one of the fundamentals of Buddhist virtuous or moral life. Numerous distinct groups have developed since the passing of the Buddha, with diverse teachings that vary widely in practice, philosophical emphasis, and culture. However, there are certain doctrines which are common to the majority of schools and traditions in Buddhism, though only Theravada regards all of them as central. About all Buddhists few valid generalizations are possible." First thing I will go for here is the thing about rebirth. If you can't remember what you did in your previous life, but you are rewarded accordinly, then what is the point of being reincarnated at all? If someone is good, they die, they are rebord as a great eagle but cannot remember a thing, they are not the same soul as their soul has been altered. Any soul that is altered, by having memories removed or instilled - falsely I might add - is not reaping what they have sewn, so, this is not justice. What is it then? What controls this force of birth and rebirth? I see lots of inner searching, but I do not see any searching outside of the human being for answers as to whay and how or whatever things are as they are. This leads me to believe that the Buddha was introspective, peaceful maybe, but peace is not knowledge. Knowing how to make people peaceful will not build great things, and it will take a great while for people to gain this peace that he has attained, so while people seek their own fulfillment all the while - which is selfish - they are not looking around them. If they were looking around them, beyond how to be happy and what happens when you die, then they might see that there is more to this universe than them and their futures. Of course they love each other because they love themselves, or that is how it works I have been told, but they do not have answers to why they are there or where they are going once this rebirth cylce stops. Is earth eternal? Apparently not, if science is to be believed, and their philosophies are a science, and being men of sciene they must see that this rebirth cycle, which is 'magical' will bottle up looking for some place to be 'reborn' to, right? What if this planet is destroyed? Where will all the rebirth stuff go? Seeing as how they are so into themselves and being happy they will see that their existence will die out. So if it is not eternal, and souls are reborn, then where did the first souls come from? They must have been created by a Creator or creative forces, like a big bang, which leads us to gather that they are believers in God or evolutionists. The funny thing is evolutionists don't fear God often, or believe in magic that much, so where do they stand? One day nothing, the next rebirth cycle? I find this hard to believe that others would be so foolish as to believe this. Things need to be created, or evolve, but, can spirits evolve? Are we evolving our souls all the time as to become new things to the universe that will be reborn into new living things, is that the story? I really doubt it. Also I do not like the idea of there not being a creator with scritpures, or, if they do believe in some Buddhas becoming gods, then they are not seen as eternal beings at all in their eyes. What good is it to be a god then, what does it mean to be a God? Apparently you recieve a 'life' of luxury and pleasures that you enjoy until you die and are reborn. If this is the way things work, then the Buddhism followers believe that there are laws to the universe just like I do, laws that bind it and keep it working, laws that while we don't know the calculations of, but we know the value. When did the Buddha decide that we are reborn? How did he decide we are reborn? He must be in touch with nature, but, not with other forces besides the living things? What is life to the Buddha, a will to exist? For this reason everything that exists and resists is exerting a will to exists, so a rock that does not crumble when you try to crush it is living too, right? What is the difference? A heart, pumping blood, all these things are merely physical things that are the sum of atomic strucutre. The difference is in the mind, and in the mind of a living thing, from what I can gather things that need water to survive, things get a mind. This mind is partial geared to get more water. Dead things do not need water, so, is the rebirth cycle all about water? Is water the elemental froce behind life? Science says so, and now I have reasoned it so as well for myself. Life is about sucking up water, and the rebirth cycle revoleves around things that suck up water and you becoming a new thing that sucks up water, so, the God of Buddhism, and there should be one based on this, is water, as while it is not central to the rebirth cycle, it is essential for it being sustained. If there was no water the cycle would stop. If there was no planet the cycle would stop. If there was neither of these, there would be no Buddhists, and therefore the Buddhists should not only meditate alone or in groups but with the nature too. What are the other aspects of Buddhism, Wiki wasn't that broad in giving things like strenghts and weaknesses.

Jul 7, 2007, 05:58 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
neptewn Sedimentary Rock Posts: 4	If someone is good, they die, they are rebord as a great eagle but cannot remember a thing, they are not the same soul as their soul has been altered. Any soul that is altered, by having memories removed or instilled - falsely I might add - is not reaping what they have sewn, so, this is not justice. What is it then? What controls this force of birth and rebirth? I think your missing the point. Time is justice and your looking at justice as a mechanism to punish the individual, Buddhism does not see existance at an individual level an individual is simply the relighting of the torch. I see lots of inner searching, but I do not see any searching outside of the human being for answers as to whay and how or whatever things are as they are. This leads me to believe that the Buddha was introspective, peaceful maybe, but peace is not knowledge. Knowing how to make people peaceful will not build great things, and it will take a great while for people to gain this peace that he has attained, so while people seek their own fulfillment all the while - which is selfish - they are not looking around them. I think you are missing everything here. Your assumption is that knowledge some how equates to wisdom and morality. The atom bomb for example was great science (Knowledge), but it introduced great moral problems. While science may create a better bomb, Buddhist seek a better moral framework to judge it's use. I don't see how it is selfish to be concerned about knowledge unconstrained by ethical argument. "It is all too evident that our moral thinking simply has not been able to keep pace with such rapid progress in our acquisition of knowledge and power," - Dalai Lama If they were looking around them, beyond how to be happy and what happens when you die, then they might see that there is more to this universe than them and their futures. Of course they love each other because they love themselves, or that is how it works I have been told, but they do not have answers to why they are there or where they are going once this rebirth cylce stops. Is earth eternal? With all this looking outside yourself, what is the answer to why we are here and is Earth eternal? And their goal is simply to end suffering. 1. There is Suffering Suffering is common to all. 2. Cause of Suffering We are the cause of our suffering. 3. End of Suffering Stop doing what causes suffering. 4. Path to end Suffering Everyone can be enlightened. Apparently not, if science is to be believed, and their philosophies are a science, and being men of sciene they must see that this rebirth cycle, which is 'magical' will bottle up looking for some place to be 'reborn' to, right? What if this planet is destroyed? Where will all the rebirth stuff go? Seeing as how they are so into themselves and being happy they will see that their existence will die out. So if it is not eternal, and souls are reborn, then where did the first souls come from? They must have been created by a Creator or creative forces, like a big bang, which leads us to gather that they are believers in God or evolutionists. The funny thing is evolutionists don't fear God often, or believe in magic that much, so where do they stand? One day nothing, the next rebirth cycle? I find this hard to believe that others would be so foolish as to believe this. Things need to be created, or evolve, but, can spirits evolve? Are we evolving our souls all the time as to become new things to the universe that will be reborn into new living things, is that the story? I really doubt it. This isn't Christianity it's not stubborn, they'll bend if science can prove anything you say. "My confidence in venturing into science lies in my basic belief that as in science so in Buddhism, understanding the nature of reality is pursued by means of critical investigation: if scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims." - Dalai Lama Also I do not like the idea of there not being a creator with scritpures, or, if they do believe in some Buddhas becoming gods, then they are not seen as eternal beings at all in their eyes. What good is it to be a god then, what does it mean to be a God? Apparently you recieve a 'life' of luxury and pleasures that you enjoy until you die and are reborn. Buddhism is a way of life which does not hinge upon the concept of a Creator God, you're looking at things through western eyes. Buddha was the first person to grasp the belief of Samsara and figure out how to end it. He taught that the only way for one to end their journey through Samsara was enlightenment. The only person who could stop one’s cycle of Samsara was the one who was traveling through their path. Some thought that Samsara is a place and thought that it was selfish for them to be able to stop it and leave the others behind. Most believe that Samsara is a process. In this process people are being born into new lives and since it happens to everyone and everyone has the ability to escape it, it is not selfish. Being said the process of Samsara may take a long time to complete and even with no time limit there may be some who can never actually escape this endless suffering If this is the way things work, then the Buddhism followers believe that there are laws to the universe just like I do, laws that bind it and keep it working, laws that while we don't know the calculations of, but we know the value. Yes, they believe in science and the physical world. "Science shows us ways of interpreting the physical world, while spirituality helps us cope with reality. But the extreme of either is impoverishing. The belief that all is reducibnle to matter and energy leaves out a huge range of human experience:emotions, yearnings, compassion, culture. At the same time, holding unexamined spiritual beliefs-beliefs that are contradicted by evidence, logic and experience-can lock us into fundamental cages." - Dalai Lama When did the Buddha decide that we are reborn? How did he decide we are reborn? He must be in touch with nature, but, not with other forces besides the living things? When he achieved enlightenment and ended his suffering. What is life to the Buddha, a will to exist? The endless cycle of suffering. For this reason everything that exists and resists is exerting a will to exists, so a rock that does not crumble when you try to crush it is living too, right? What is the difference? A rock is not suffering. A heart, pumping blood, all these things are merely physical things that are the sum of atomic strucutre. The difference is in the mind, and in the mind of a living thing, from what I can gather things that need water to survive, things get a mind. This mind is partial geared to get more water. Dead things do not need water, so, is the rebirth cycle all about water? Is water the elemental froce behind life? Science says so, and now I have reasoned it so as well for myself. Life is about sucking up water, and the rebirth cycle revoleves around things that suck up water and you becoming a new thing that sucks up water, so, the God of Buddhism, and there should be one based on this, is water, as while it is not central to the rebirth cycle, it is essential for it being sustained. If there was no water the cycle would stop. If there was no planet the cycle would stop. If there was neither of these, there would be no Buddhists, and therefore the Buddhists should not only meditate alone or in groups but with the nature too. They are not seperate from nature so I don't understand your point. If the Buddhist doesn't exist, then they don't exist. Buddhism believes that though change is a factor inherent in nature, man's moral deterioration accelerates the process of change and brings about changes which are adverse to human well being and happiness What are the other aspects of Buddhism, Wiki wasn't that broad in giving things like strenghts and weaknesses. I am not a Buddhist I am an Atheist.. I spent a few summers living with Buddhist when I was growing up and I have read a few books on the subject, years ago. The majority of the information I provided is either from my understanding or information I researched. I'm sorry if I am inaccurate in anyway. One other thing to note.. In the last 2,500 years there has never been any serious discord or conflict created by Buddhists that led to war in the name of this religion.