Finite sin, Infinite punishment?

[Lullaby Chainer]

What finite sin deserves infinite punishment? I've never had a Christian give me an answer to this.

Hell could be one of these things..

-A place of fire and torture.. in which case this is certainly an infinite punishment.

-A place without God. In infinity, a mind without the "presence of God" will undoubtedly regret their decisions and the psychological snowball of regret, depression and sorrow will have an eternity to grow until the torture is overwhelming and the hope of finding a way out is absent.

Either of these things are infinite punishments..

What finite sin deserves either?

Note..

"Tempting others to Hell is worthy of infinite punishment, because those one tempts will suffer forever."

That's circular reasoning. It's using the conclusion to support the conclusion. In other words, if they wouldn't go to Hell to suffer forever.. there would be no supporting argument for a place called Hell where people go to suffer forever.

[Hylife]

All sin is worthy of hell (your second definition is the correct one.).

Sin makes us God's enemies; something he can't stand. If you're sinful, he casts you out of his presence. If all sin wasn't worthy of hell Jesus' sacrifice wouldn't have been as necessary..

[SoylentGreen]

And yet a person can commit any number of vile, evil, sinnfull acts throughout his life and so long as on his deathbed he recants and accepts jesus all his sins are forgiven.
So I would say that its only the sin of not accepting god that will get you eternal damnation.

[Hylife]

I suppose you could look at it that way..but if you had never sin you would not have NEEDED to accept God..

[SoylentGreen]

And who exactly is born without sin?

[Hylife]

no one..

[SoylentGreen]

I suppose you could look at it that way..but if you had never sin you would not have NEEDED to accept God..

So the point of this statement is....?

[Hylife]

everyone chooses to disobey God..

[Humble Servant]

Quote by: SoylentGreen And yet a person can commit any number of vile, evil, sinnfull acts throughout his life and so long as on his deathbed he recants and accepts jesus all his sins are forgiven. So I would say that its only the sin of not accepting god that will get you eternal damnation.

The possibility of that act of confession I think is highly suspect. One does not come to God and use the gift of grace as "fire Insurance" if you will. For one to really accept Christ it requires repentance. Repentance is more than just saying oops sorry ol boy...won't happen again It is a turning away from sin. If one really believes there will be evidence of his/her faith by the actions they take in their every day life. And no this is not an instant change in behavior. As a person matures in their walk of faith their lives will change. Only God knows the heart of a man. Is it possible that in the last few seconds of someones life they confess and accept Gods offer of grace? Yes it is possible. Is it also possible that someone has a last second confession of faith that is not genuine and is doing so to save his bacon. Yes it is. Do I have the ability to distinguish which one is genuine? Not a chance but God does. So it's really not for me to worry. :)

[SoylentGreen]

The point is that you have to accept god.
A person can live a good life and believe that this god stuff is just a load of sh*t, and he is bound for hell. But a person can also be bad and evil but as long as he truly believes in god and repents he goes to heaven.
So my statement still stands, the only sin is not beleiving in god

[Hylife]

no, if someone was truely a "good person", then they'd have no sin. The only good person was Christ..

[SoylentGreen]

Hylife no, if someone was truely a "good person", then they'd have no sin. The only good person was Christ..

Crap, your just trying to be obfuscating to avoid the point,
I never said truely good but just good. As in someone can live a life in general agreement to the morals posited by the bible but without any belief in god.
Or shall we take a look at your statements so far.

All sin is worthy of hell
And who exactly is born without sin?
no one..
everyone chooses to disobey God..
no, if someone was truely a "good person", then they'd have no sin.

So basically your saying everyone is bound for hell?

[Hylife]

Apart from Christ, yeah..

[freefallife]

All creationsist share the same magnificent presumtion. They all think they know what god likes and dislikes. Perhaps theres a special area in hell reserved for those who go to mass. Or perhaps god might punish those whose faith is prompted by prudence (its better to believe and be wrong than not to believe and be wrong) Or perhaps god prefers the agnostic to those who hang around with a denomination which He despises. Perhaps the intellectual ascetic will win all, while those who compromised their intellectual integrity for the sake of their own personal interests will lose everything. All this talk of heaven and salvation. Why would any god be impressed by someone who loves them because they're expecting "eternal life" for it?

[Humble Servant]

Quote by: SoylentGreen The point is that you have to accept god. A person can live a good life and believe that this god stuff is just a load of sh*t, and he is bound for hell. But a person can also be bad and evil but as long as he truly believes in god and repents he goes to heaven. So my statement still stands, the only sin is not beleiving in god

According to Scripture (my understanding of it) you are correct but only partially. The only unforgivable sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit which is rejecting Christ and the grace he offers( Lk 12.10, Mk 3.29, Mt 12.31-32).

Its obvious that you do not agree with Christianity and that is your choice. But I wonder why are you so angry at people who do believe? How is my faith in a personal God offending you? I am not trying to egg you on but I honestly wonder why you take the time to argue with people who believe differently than you? If you think we are just a bunch of poor fools who are believing in an absurdity then why not ignore us and go have a cold beer?

It really all comes down to weather or not you believe that the Bible is the word of God and is to be trusted. If you do not then any discussion about the Christian God is pointless.

[texasdave]

Here is your answer. Your sin of rejecting God is infinite. Thus your banishment from God's presence is infinite. You choose to deny God either by word or action ( or both) so hell is the fruition of your choice. You are created with an infinite spirit so your rejection of sin is infinite. You wrongly assume it is finite because your chance to decide ( your life in this world) is finite. You can't be given infinite time to decide. Choose wisely.

[SoylentGreen]

Humble Servant According to Scripture (my understanding of it) you are correct but only partially. The only unforgivable sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit which is rejecting Christ and the grace he offers

I fail to see the difference between your saying the above and my saying the below

So I would say that its only the sin of not accepting god that will get you eternal damnation.

except that you say it a lot prettier.

But I wonder why are you so angry at people who do believe? How is my faith in a personal God offending you?

Your own personal faith, I don't know and really don't care. No insult intended, I have a live and let live view with it really.
But Texasdaves bullsh*t makes me laugh. I wonder if he tells that crap to little children just for the pleasure of having them wet there bed in fear of his ridiculous scary god that will send me to hell if I don.t grovel at his feet.

If you think we are just a bunch of poor fools who are believing in an absurdity then why not ignore us and go have a cold beer? It really all comes down to weather or not you believe that the Bible is the word of God and is to be trusted. If you do not then any discussion about the Christian God is pointless

.

I actually don't think that most of you are a bunch of fools. I have great respect for some theists even though I do think they are believing in an absurdity.
.
In the real world I don't bother with discussing religious view points, in fact I go out of my way to avoid it. But here in virtual on this thread and the entire link we meet to discuss and debate differing views.
It can be an intersting mental exercise even if as you say sometimes pointless.

[Humble Servant]

Fair enough. Was just trying to get a better point on where you were coming from. And yes we did say the same thing but I just clarified it a bit... And I understand about debating some things only on the forums. I do that with my political views.. I don't desire the smack in the bean by some irate Dem or Repub. Oh and I like cold Coronas with green olives

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: texasdave Here is your answer. Your sin of rejecting God is infinite. Thus your banishment from God's presence is infinite. You choose to deny God either by word or action ( or both) so hell is the fruition of your choice. You are created with an infinite spirit so your rejection of sin is infinite. You wrongly assume it is finite because your chance to decide ( your life in this world) is finite. You can't be given infinite time to decide. Choose wisely.

Is the action infinite or is the being that is targeted infinite?

No one is fundamentally hurt by not accepting something they can't find or believe is false. Yet, the action of doing so is infinite because..? Because God values his own emotions, that rival a teenage girl, over the fair judgment and character of his creations and sees it fit that if one of his creations is too faulty to find him.. they deserve infinite punishment.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Hylife All sin is worthy of hell (your second definition is the correct one.). Sin makes us God's enemies; something he can't stand. If you're sinful, he casts you out of his presence. If all sin wasn't worthy of hell Jesus' sacrifice wouldn't have been as necessary..

You forgot to explain how any sin is deserving of infinite punishment. Are all sins infinite? If not, then the punishment is unjust.