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Jun 27, 2007, 05:27 am
| #2 (permalink) (top) |
| 13.7B Light Years+  Location: 42 N, 83 W Posts: 954 | No. Time is a duration between events. The units of time are made up by humans from an earthly perspective based on the revolution of the earth. Time is also a necessary component in the explanation of the universe. Time is said to have begun after the big bang only because we don't know what (if any) events took place prior to the bang. If M-theory is true, then time has always existed along with energy and events happened prior to the big bang. Why do you ask? God is superfluous, nuff said  Life Made Easy, without a god Big Bang Misconceptions String Theory for the Layman |
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Jun 27, 2007, 07:47 am
| #3 (permalink) (top) |
| Kuldeep Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 1,640 | Yes, time is illusion ! Time has meaning with reference to fixed reference. BB is scientific reference, possible that even BB is illusion. So time is also illusion. More about Time, look into thread "What is time " in science and technology forum. |
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Jun 27, 2007, 07:58 am
| #4 (permalink) (top) | |
| Leibniz  Posts: 286 | Quote:
No, time is not an illusion. Time may be measured from a fixed reference but it does not follow that it is therefore an illusion. If I am on a train moving away from the train station (a fixed reference) does that mean my movement is an illusion? Time cannot be an illusion because we see its effects all around us. If time did not exist then all the events in the world would be jumbled in to one singularity. Time acts as a fourth dimension. "...all life is an experiment. Every year, if not every day, we have to wager our salvation upon some prophecy based upon imperfect knowledge." -Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr | |
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Jun 27, 2007, 08:09 am
| #5 (permalink) (top) |
| Volcanic Erupter  Posts: 4,375 | We don't see "effects" of time. Time is a dimension of measurement. Put an M&M on your desk. Depending on which context you are measuring, it has an X, Y, and Z coordinate. It also has a fourth coordinate... the point in time at which you made the measurement. Let the M&M sit there for 1 second. The X, Y, and Z are the same, but the time coordinate is different. Depending on the scale of your measurement, it might be different by 1, 1/60th, or 1,000. It is not an "illusion." It's just a dimension in which we are moving, but cannot control our movement. IT'S A BOY!!  |
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Jun 27, 2007, 09:19 am
| #6 (permalink) (top) |
| Guest Posts: n/a | Our personal perception of Time may be illusionary, but Time itself is real. It responds to gravity and the effects of speed. As the speed of a body increases, the local time decreases. As gravitational forces increases, time slows down. A clock in Death Valley runs slower, than the same clock on the top of Mt. Everest--a phenomenon that has been measured. Regards S. |
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Jun 27, 2007, 10:22 am
| #7 (permalink) (top) |
| Volcanic Erupter Posts: 4,375 | sdbest The clock running slower has nothing to do with time. It's about velocity. A clock floating in space would appear to run slower than the clock in Death Valley, because relatively speaking the clock in Death Valley is moving 67,000 miles an hour around the sun and 1,000 miles an hour "around" the Earth's center. If it were possible to be truly motionless in space without any movement whatsoever, that would be the true measure of time. IT'S A BOY!! |
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Jun 27, 2007, 10:39 am
| #8 (permalink) (top) | |
| Guest Posts: n/a | Quote:
As for "If it were possible to be truly motionless in space without any movement whatsoever, that would be the true measure of time." This notion has no meaning in a theory of relativity. "Motionless" relative to what? Regards S. | |
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Jun 27, 2007, 11:15 am
| #9 (permalink) (top) |
| Volcanic Erupter Posts: 4,375 | Motionless relative to everything else in existence. Movement in a dimensions distorts that dimension. Since time in the velocity equations depends on the space being traveled, since mass dilates and space is distorted, the moving object experiences less time because it is traveling less space. The "background time" remains unchanged, only the "local time" for the moving object changes. IT'S A BOY!! |
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Jun 27, 2007, 01:07 pm
| #10 (permalink) (top) |
 Posts: 3,014 | According to String Theory, yes.. I believe it is an illusion. The 4th dimension cannot move in the 4th dimension. Ok, imagine it like this.. There's a line. Cool, now.. another line is drawn through and now there's a plane. It now has length and width, but no depth. We then draw another line extending out and we suddenly enter the 3rd dimension. Our shape, a box for now, has a length, a width, and depth. WITHOUT the 4th dimension, OUR BOX IS NOT MOVING. Ok, so what IS the 4th dimension? The first three are easy to imagine because we are 3-dimensional creatures. To enter the 4th dimension, we must introduce our concept of time. "Time" is literally the phenomenon of viewing the nth dimension in (n-1)-dimensional terms. In other words.. "time" itself is not the dimension itself.. With this "time" concept, we are given the illusion of motion. Imagine you are a 2 dimensional creature. You have length, width, but no depth. Now, let's call the 3rd dimension time. The introduction of 3-dimensional time would appear as such.. A 3-dimensional balloon to a 2 dimensional creature would start as a dot.. then grow.. then shrink.. then finally pop out of existence. Thus, the time phenomenon occurs and the illusion of motion is created. The balloon WAS NOT changing... the change, or illusion of motion, was due to the phenomenon of time. Ok.. back to our world. We're 3 dimensional creatures, so what does this mean? It means.. just as the 3rd dimensional leg protruded from the 2 dimensional plane, a 4th dimensional leg now protrudes from our 3 dimensional box. We, as 3 dimensional creatures, only see 3 dimensional cross sections of the 4th dimensional leg. We experience the time phenomenon, and are given the illusion of movement. In actuality, just as the 3 dimensional balloon in the 2 dimensional world was NOT moving.. NEITHER is the 4th dimensional leg. In other words, our lives are already composed in shape and any possibility of change starts from the beginning and extends into a separate 4th dimensional leg. Powerful.. magical.. e-e-e-eevil.. |
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Jun 27, 2007, 02:42 pm
| #11 (permalink) (top) |
| Skeptic of Skeptics Location: Bristol/Plymouth Posts: 219 | Im remain entirely skeptical of such amalgamation! This 'right handed' dimension thought is not sufficient if you ask me! You amalgamate time as just another perpendicular coordinate axis we cannot see! It is not sufficient! Nature does not care whether dimension are at right angles to each other, all that is neccesary is that the dimension present is sufficient for us to exist! 3 linearly independent (this is where I lose people) vectors are sufficient to describe all the points on the surface of a an object say. What I'm trying to say is, you must generalise this 'dimension' argument. Dimensions are not at right angles to each other, they are numerical neccesities for our existence. It is apparent that we require 4 dimension to exist (+ a reference point to describe numerically). The relative units in these dimension change as we experience certain effects! (gravity, uniform motion, god knows what else). EMPHASIS: Dimension are not right angle to each other, they are linearly independent to each other. They are a basis (mathematical!) for our numerical existence! The more painless an exercise, the more likely you are of doing it. The more painful an exercise, the more likely you are of learning from it. |
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Jun 27, 2007, 03:41 pm
| #12 (permalink) (top) | |
| Posts: 3,014 | Quote:
Powerful.. magical.. e-e-e-eevil.. | |
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Jun 27, 2007, 05:23 pm
| #13 (permalink) (top) |
| Skeptic of Skeptics Location: Bristol/Plymouth Posts: 219 | I dont feel much! (joke, not funny) Ok, well Im in complete ingnoramus considering I dont know jack all about string theory nor general relativity. But Im gonna open my mouth anyway. I think that to merely amalgamate the properties of these inherent 'dimension' is wrong. Iam no way in any position to say what is right and what is wrong about this so called 4th dimension. What is a dimension!?! We can define any particle in space with coordinates if and only if those coordinates contain 4 elements each corresponding to the x,y,z,t of the particle. It is NECCESARY to have 4 numbers for the coordinates. I feel it would be very foolish to amalgamate the properties of the first 3 of these numbers to the 4th. It simply does not FEEL right. It does not balance! Indeed, it is interesting to inspect it mathematically, but that takes a lot of time, a lot of understanding and intellect and its something most people will not do in there lives. So we go ahead and inspect it mathematically and if it produces results which have been verified by experiment, then we may gain a deeper understanding of our world. To do this, youd look at the first 3 dimension, find properties and assume them to be true for time. This is difficult. Why? Because we cannot manipulate time! For the first 3 you can easily define a unit vector in each direction perpendicular to each other and then do all sorts of things. You can introduce coordinate axis rotated so and so degrees to so and so axis and then find how the different coordinates relate to each other. We know this because we can see it, it is a product of our little 3D world! However, time is different. Is time an arrow in space? Or just a scalar number? Does it behave mathematically as a vector? We dont know! We dont know what makes time 'go' so we cannot sum contributions and the likes! All we know is that various things affect how we experience time. Some of these are indeed thought to be a 'rotation' in space and time. But this is only postulated because it is mathematically analogous to the rotation of a two sets of coordinate axis in space and the relation between them. But it is no ordinary nor fixed rotation! You plot a space time diagram, put ct on the 'y' axis and x on the x axis. Define this coordinate system for zero velocity. Then, you wish to express the coordinates as observed by someone moving with velocity in the x direction on the coordinates defined for the zero velocity system. The axis DO INDEED rotate! But they dont all rotate the same way nor the same amount! In fact, the line representing time and the line representing the x direction rotate inwards to the diagonal line going from bottom left to top right. IE, time has peculiar properties directly related to the first 3 dimension! Who am I kidding, DL this Torrent - Feynman Lectures on Physics:: BitTorrentMonster and read the special relativity chapters. But yeah, Im just blabering really. Pure thought will serve you nothing unless you sit down with a pen and paper and do the mathematics. Because thats all it is, a mathematical oasis of inevitability. The more painless an exercise, the more likely you are of doing it. The more painful an exercise, the more likely you are of learning from it. |
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Jun 30, 2007, 07:05 am
| #14 (permalink) (top) |
| Sedimentary Rock  Posts: 13 | Since you cannot observe time in a 5-dimensional reality, with you consisting of 4 dimensions (just as we are now consisting on 3), then you cannot accurately describe the nature of time (i.e. the 4th dimension). It is also beyond our imagination. In other words, your description of time, iahag, is from a subjective perspective only. |
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Jun 30, 2007, 07:50 pm
| #15 (permalink) (top) | |
| Posts: 3,014 | Quote:
Powerful.. magical.. e-e-e-eevil.. | |
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