What defines an educated person?

[Martha Stewart]

We have been brought up in Western society to necessarily believe that an educated person consists of only the faculties of the mind(critical thinking, questioning, knowledge base, etc...).

But there are many so called "educated" people who use their knowledge and skills for evil.

My question is, do you think that we should include in our definition of an educated person other faculties of the emotions and soul as well.

Should an educated person be a compassionate, giving, empathethic person? If so, should we be focusing more on these things in our education system?

[Captain Cardio]

My question is, do you think that we should include in our definition of an educated person other faculties of the emotions and soul as well.

It does seem that the people in our society who are self serving, are not all that enlightened. People who seem capable of seeing the bigger picture often seem, in my mind anyway, much more educated than those who only use what they know to serve themselves (i.e. oil executives)

Should an educated person be a compassionate, giving, empathethic person?

I think that if we changed the definition of educated to include those traits, it would certainly change people's perception of what being educated means. To some, it might seem like a more idealistic definition that they might resent if they feel they don't live up to it, and to others it might mean more of an expectation in society to exhibit moral behaviour.

If so, should we be focusing more on these things in our education system?

If public education changed to be more focused on teaching kids to be good people, some parents might be upset that the school is trying to instill values that the parents themselves want to be in control of.

[tinybear]

Americans should be educated not only in the sense of being able to read write and communicate fluently, but also in terms of proper values, like for example that rights and duties go together. In recent years, there has been too much emphasis on the former whilst the latter has been totally ignored.

[Martha Stewart]

Anybody else have any thoughts on the subject? I've gotta write an argument paper on this, so any ideas would be helpful.

[Humble Servant]

Quote by: tinybear Americans should be educated not only in the sense of being able to read write and communicate fluently, but also in terms of proper values, like for example that rights and duties go together. In recent years, there has been too much emphasis on the former whilst the latter has been totally ignored.

Who decides what values are proper?

[Martha Stewart]

I think there are some universal values which we can all agree upon which have nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with what it means to be a decent respectful human being.

In terms of who decides, I guess there would be values which are culture specific. But I'm talking about universals. Such values would include, empathy, compassion, kindness, generosity, a sense of morality.

Do you think these things should be part of the definition of an educated person?

In my own definition, an educated person is someone who is both cognitively and affectively developed.

"To educate a person in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society" Teddy Roosevelt

[sdbest]

Quote by: tinybear Americans should be educated ... in terms of proper values, like for example that rights and duties go together.

And the proper values are? and to be decided by whom?

Regards
S.

[Maryjane]

Should an educated person be a compassionate, giving, empathethic person? If so, should we be focusing more on these things in our education system?

I would say yes. It makes for a well rounded and open minded person. Sadly, some children don't have an opportunity to learn these things at home.

In terms of who decides, I guess there would be values which are culture specific. But I'm talking about universals. Such values would include, empathy, compassion, kindness, generosity, a sense of morality. Do you think these things should be part of the definition of an educated person?

I know social skills are taught at my son's school as early as kindergarten.

I'm curious. Are these things not being taught in public school where you are located? At various schools in the county I live in, children are recognized monthy in a news letter (sent home to parents) when they caught in the act of upholding core values. There is also a student of the year recognition as well. The prize is lunch at a local restaurant with the principal and vice principal. Upon entering school, there is a Principal Proud board. Each month a student's work and a photograph of the student shaking hands with the principal .

My son recieved the following post card (out of the blue) from the principal of his school:

Dear Owen,
You are a joy to have at XXXXXXX. You always show excellent manners and you always talk with me. You work hard and do your best. You are an enthusiastic learner.
Love,
XXXXXXX

Would a parent have an issue with a principal giving this kind of positive feedback to a student? Does anyone have an objection to the civics classes being taught?

History CPRs

[Martha Stewart]

As a student teacher myself, I agree with you that these things are taught in schools and that they should be.

But some people would disagree with me, stating that values and morals are to be taught at home and that education is about the mind only.

The probelm we are faced with is that, these concepts are being taught in many schools and with every right. However, the commonly used or colloquial definition of an educated person has nothing to do with being a compassionate, empathetic person.

My question is this. Should we redefine what it means to be an educated person? or should we come up with another term for a person who is both "educated" in the colloquial sense and moral as well?

[Humble Servant]

Maybe the term you are using is wrong. One can be educated and still be amoral or psychopathic Ted Bundy comes to mind. I think maybe what you are needing is a word that is more descriptive of social mores. What about the word cultivated? Websters defines it as: to improve by labor, care, or study : REFINE <cultivate the mind>

What do you think?

[Technosoul]

I will assume you are not the real Martha Stewart.

In modern times our businesses have nearly outlawed moral standards in their business policies.

For example. In a small town in the old days your word was often enough for someone - we have lost our trust in a persons 'word'. In their moral obligation to be honest and truthful in business dealings. We have subsituted contracts, and background credit checks, etc.

Would it be deceptive to teach kids that being a well respected man about town - will get them anyplace in this world where no one trusts anyone anymore? Banks and car dealers respect your bank account, not you as a person with "high standards". Your identiy is not "you" but what a computer reports about you when doing electronic credit standing checks. Your idenity can even be stolen by hackers. We have no "moral identity" as such in our modern economic system. As well, people respect power, especially if they have a big gun to wave around, and kids must deal with that everyday fact in their urban life styles.

Re: the movie Freedom Writers.

Not sure if education can change society or if we should just prepare them for the current realitiy of life.

Take also the history of Martha Stewart, I viewed her as a lady of high standards, nearly perfect. And they put her into jail. Her life went to the dogs. But now she is back and her fans still love her, because she symbolizes what "should be" and not the imperfections of real life can bring at us.

[Martha Stewart]

Maybe the term you are using is wrong. One can be educated and still be amoral or psychopathic Ted Bundy comes to mind.

Yes, I do agree with you. Perhaps Ted Bundy would suffice the colloquial definition of educated, but I'm digging for a deeper definition.

Do you think it's enough just to have the power of reasoning, critical thinking etc..?

When I think about what a truely educated person looks like; they have such a deep understanding of the world around them that it brings them naturally to an understanding of the human condition and with understanding comes compassion.

Would it be deceptive to teach kids that being a well respected man about town - will get them anyplace in this world where no one trusts anyone anymore?

Well taken, however why can't anyone trust anymore? Is it because these values aren't being taught? Is it because they have been replaced with such concepts as power in a materialistic society?

Is this the kind of attitude we want future generations embracing?

I agree that we should be preparing students for "the real world" but would our world be that much better if people could trust each other?

what are your thoughts?

[derek]

I hope I understand correctly. We aren't talking "book smarts," but more talking about how we handle social situations.

I think you will definately learn social skills in school to a degree because you will be introduced to a social setting. I think the home life has a lot to do with it, because as children our families usually are a big influence on us. We may ask our child what is wrong when we pick them up from school.... they reply with a tough social situation that they encountered.... and our response can change a lot about how they understand what happened. Of course how it is handled in the classroom will make some sort of impact also. The first years of school such as kindergarden seem to be more about social ineraction then book smarts, right?

I think teaching our kids to communicate honestly is something that may make a big impact from an early age. Having open discussions with them, asking them what they think, and especially being honest with ourselves to be ok with telling them what we don't know may help them communicate about and understand their social interactions.

Unfortunately a handful of religious beliefs insist on it being a "no no" to say, "we don't really know this." They praise you for saying, "this is reality" (without saying the "even though we don't really know" part). I do not blame religions. I just think it's one good example of growing up without being talked to honestly and encouraged to be honest about things. I personally think an honest analytical mind with less book smarts could be much more progressive (be it ethical, social, business, science, etc.) than a well "educated" mind that has a hard time communicating honestly.

I hope I didn't digress.... I don't know... what do you guys think?

[Martha Stewart]

I personally think an honest analytical mind with less book smarts could be much more progressive (be it ethical, social, business, science, etc.) than a well "educated" mind that has a hard time communicating honestly.

While I do agree with you that a progressive thinker should be part of what it means to be educated. What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

I necessarily believe that we need to have some book smarts as you put it, in order to be able to properly process and honestly think about our world.

The more informed we are, the better we'll be able to weigh issues and come to a conclusion. (sorry for playing devli's advocate!)

But yes, I still do think that a definition of an educated person should include not only faculties of the mind, but faculties of the soul as well. To me this would be a well rounded, well educated person.

[derek]

I understand what you mean.... I think the ideal is the book smarts and the honest/analytical . I'm not sure exactly what it means when you talk about the soul though.... maybe you're talking about the emotional parts of human nature?

Maybe I'm wrong, but sometimes I think the mind and the soul are kind of the same area....

[Maryjane]

Is it because they have been replaced with such concepts as power in a materialistic society?

Martha,
I think that is a huge part of the problem. I guess I was raised differently when a person's word actually meant something. That you don't necessarily have to be totally book smart to make it in this world but working hard and being a respectable person is the way to achieve real success in life. I've raised my kids the same way, but I'm not sure I'm doing them any favors in today's society. I'm clinging to the hope that I am.

I'll tell you a little story...When my husband died, I was in a legal battle with his business partner for almost three years because of an unsigned partnership agreement. We all knew what the deal was. I was to sell my shares of the business in exchange for the insurance money. The partner took advantage of a loop hole and I learned a valuable lesson. A verbal agreement is only as good as the paper it is written on. He "legally" stole over six figures from my husband's estate. This is a man that was in business with my husband for twelve years. It's not the money that bothers me as much as it is the principle and his lack of ethics.

Is it any wonder I don't trust anymore?

My only consolation is the business started crumbling four months after my husband's death and went 22 thousand in the hole the first year. Even with all the money he stole, he can't keep it running. No one will work for him because he treats them like crap. He doesn't have the book smarts to run the business and relys on a CPA who (like him) has his own best interest at heart. So I guess what comes around, goes around?

I quit my job a month ago because the corporation was dicking me around for three months about a review /raise. Again, it's not the money, it is the principle. How can society function like this? Somewhere, someone is not being taught ethics, compassion, or empathy.

derek,
In our schools preK was an introduction to social interaction but due to budget constraints, they did away with it. I agree with you, core values should be taught at home.
But today we have kids killing kids over sneakers. Where are they learning their values? Not at home. Some parents just plunk their kids down in front of a television set as a babysitter. When they are older they rush them from one activity to another. Family dinners are a thing of the past. Heck, I think I'm one of the few that actually reads to their kids anymore. Our favorite night time ritual was reading a book, turning off the lights, discussing what we had read and then they got to talk about their day. I really learned a lot about my kids (and their friends) that way.

I don't think you have to be religious to instil values. I'm living proof of that. My husband's partner was a "good christian" man. :eek:

[tinybear]

Quote by: Humble Servant Who decides what values are proper?

Nobody 'decides' which values are proper in the sense of someone laying down a law and the rest being bound to follow. American values have evolved over hundreds of years and culminated into ones which brought America to its pinnacle of power and influence around the world. I don't know. It may be my imagination or cynicism, but I get the feeling that America's core values have shown signs of slipping lately.

This is an interesting article you may like to look at:

Key American Values

[Humble Servant]

Quote by: tinybear Nobody 'decides' which values are proper in the sense of someone laying down a law and the rest being bound to follow. American values have evolved over hundreds of years and culminated into ones which brought America to its pinnacle of power and influence around the world. I don't know. It may be my imagination or cynicism, but I get the feeling that America's core values have shown signs of slipping lately. This is an interesting article you may like to look at: Key American Values

Tiny I was not thinking about a set of values which pertain to a specific area ie: the States. I was thinking more in the line of a world wide standard. I think thats what he's trying to get at. Could be wrong though.:)

[SoylentGreen]

Martha Stewart Should an educated person be a compassionate, giving, empathethic person? If so, should we be focusing more on these things in our education system?.

I think its the empathy part that is important and I am not sure that empathy is something that can be taught.
A person can fake an education or even fake a moral but unless they truly understand how their actions affect others, empathy, then all their morality is just an appearance with no substance.

[tinybear]

Quote by: Humble Servant Tiny I was not thinking about a set of values which pertain to a specific area ie: the States. I was thinking more in the line of a world wide standard. I think thats what he's trying to get at. Could be wrong though.:)

I don't think we can talk about a world wide standard. It's not even remotely feasible. There are many areas of the world where people are not even literate let alone being able to go beyond that. Moreover, societies in different parts of the world have, historically, undergone a totally different process of evolution, so there simply cannot be a uniform set of core values which universally apply worldwide.