Prayer doesn't seem to work...

[texasdave]

There is also no report in the gospels of Jesus doing it. That does not discredit the things Jesus did. God does not reveal Himself in an irrefutable way. He chooses to give us enough evidence for faith and yet enough doubt that those who choose to deny Him have an excuse to do so. So, it is not suprising that God would be consistent in this area with healing as well. You have enough evidence of miraculous healing to believe and there is just enough doubt in it than your free will is not hampered. So, your choice. Choose wisely.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: texasdave There is also no report in the gospels of Jesus doing it. That does not discredit the things Jesus did.

No one says it does. What Jesus did is irrelevant to what happens in today's media rich world.

Quote by: texasdave God does not reveal Himself in an irrefutable way.

Why not?

Quote by: texasdave He chooses to give us enough evidence for faith and yet enough doubt that those who choose to deny Him have an excuse to do so.

Why? He wants to make sure people suffer forever in Hell? What? He wants to make sure there are a endless supply of wars for the rest of humanity? What? Because tending to his own ego is more important? What?

Quote by: texasdave So, it is not suprising that God would be consistent in this area with healing as well.

Not surprising at all..

Quote by: texasdave You have enough evidence of miraculous healing to believe and there is just enough doubt in it than your free will is not hampered. So, your choice. Choose wisely.

Would you like to participate in a debate? 1 on 1. You and me in the miscellaneous section. I'll start the thread. On the existence of God. How bout it?

Quote by: texasdave ... We also have a young woman at our church who had half of one of her fingers amputated when her hand was crushed. Some members of our church prayed for healing and she regrew her finger.

In the global annals of medicine, there is no record of a human limb--or even a severed finger--growing back. But this "miracle" happened at your church and not one of the congregation including the amputee thought that, just maybe, this might be of enough significance to report it in the medical literature. Moreover, it seems that not even the attending physicians--assuming there was one--thought to report this unprecedented event.

Txsdv, a crushed finger can heal; a severed finger can be reattached, but amputated human limbs and fingers don't grow back, and Lullaby Chainers' brilliant, yet simple challenge remains: why has God never made an amputee's limb grow back?

Regards
S.

[Hylife]

It doesn't really since I've given you ample reason as to why he wouldn't do such a thing..

[texasdave]

lullaby,
How about one on one in PMs? You start. Send me one.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: texasdave lullaby, How about one on one in PMs? You start. Send me one.

I'd rather do it in a thread. If you're worried about people stepping in, I can make it private. People can only watch, but can't post.

[Maryjane]

Yeah, and talk to doctors. Many of them say they've personally witnessed miracle healings from prayer. There is a man at our church who was diagnosed with that type of skin cancer that is very aggressive ( this was about a month ago). He got it ,of all places, on his big toe. They did a biopsy and confirmed it was malignant. He refused to accept that diagnosis and told his wife and family to pray for him. Well, a few days later he noticed a change so he went back to his doctor for his appointment for surgery and the doctor re-examined his toe and was dumbfounded that the tumor and all signs of cancer were gone. This was within a few days. We also have a young woman at our church who had half of one of her fingers amputated when her hand was crushed. Some members of our church prayed for healing and she regrew her finger. And the really odd thing is that it is better looking than any of her normal fingers. Prayer works but you must have faith.

I'll be sure to tell the hundreds of widow/ers I know that have been devout Christians all their lives (unlike yourself) according to you, they lacked faith. They are still devout in their beliefs but now they question their god. They ended up like me (an atheist) widowed anyway.

A woman died of cancer. Her daughter died a year later in a horrific car accident. Prayer did not save either of them. The woman's sister took comfort that prayer brought 44 more people to God because of their deaths. Her logic confounds me. We all die, prayer or no prayer, religious or not.

[texasdave]

Ok. Do it.

[texasdave]

maryjane,
You fail to see her logic because you believe this life is all there is. This life is the battlefield of decision. It is a vapor. A grain of sand compared to eternity. 44 people coming to God from their deaths is a victory. Especially if those who died are saved too. Praise Jesus!

Quote by: texasdave maryjane, You fail to see her logic because you believe this life is all there is. This life is the battlefield of decision. It is a vapor. A grain of sand compared to eternity. 44 people coming to God from their deaths is a victory. Especially if those who died are saved too. Praise Jesus!

If this life is so bad, why don't you just end it and get your just reward? You don't have to even commit suicide; do something heroic in an American war zone. Sacrifice your life to rescue another.

All the Christians who I know are afraid of death. I wonder why?

Regards
S.

[Maryjane]

You fail to see her logic because you believe this life is all there is.

No tex, I fail to see her logic for several reasons. Don't forget, I once was a christian, as were most atheist. I bought into the brainwashing babble until I got older and started to question their motives. This constant battle of decison as you put it, of right and wrong, good and evil, heaven and hell, that christians spend their entire lives trying to sort out seems like a life of torment. No wonder they are promised an afterlife of peace in heaven.

I am more at peace now because I don't believe than I ever was as a believer. I am less of a hypocrite than most christians I know. Just because you can quote scripture doesn't make you a good person. From reading fundy christian posts on various websites I belong to, I can honestly say, I'm more forgiving (christlike) than they will ever be because I have an open mind. That blink of an eye here on earth doesn't give them the right to treat others without dignity because they believe they are promised an afterlife with god.

And as you said, Christians believe the afterlife in the kingdom of heaven is what it's really all about. Why pray for someone to live to begin with? Why don't they pray for them to die instead? If everything goes according to God's plan anyway, I repeat, why do we pray to begin with?

The only time people will admit to praying for a loved one to die, is when the death is horrific and they want them to be free of pain and suffering. Even then, when they "know" their loved one is in heaven, they feel guilty about praying for them to die. What is with all the guilt? Stop praying people!

So 44 people come to christ because two people died. Rejoice! More people for God's army! Does that guarantee them a afterlife in heaven? Are their souls really saved? One false move and they are doomed for all eternity but we won't worry about those people in the after life will we? It's in god's hands now. :rolleyes:

I am confounded by people like her that think the non believers are the enemy and saving their soul is their mission in life. I think it far more productive to "save" others here on earth while they are still living. I would have a lot more respect for this woman if she had held blood drive in honor of her niece or had a lemonade stand to raise funds for cancer research but, to bring people to jesus and lead them on the vicious cycle of guilt and self doubt frankly makes no sense to me. She was doing god's work? No, she was soothing her grief.

[texasdave]

Maryjane,
Nonbelievers are not our enemies. They are our brothers and sisters. We love them and want them with us in heaven. We hate the sin that jeapordizes them. We love the sinner because we are sinners too. Christians are not better than nonbelievers, just better off. None of us are good. Christians included. Christians are miserable, wretched, and naked. We just try to remember that and be honest about it. How much better can we be if we constantly need a savior? I am not a good man. That is why I need Jesus. I need that free gift of God's grace because I deserve hell. Why should we want people to live? Because death is the enemy. Life is of God. We celebrate life. We worship life. God is life and love. Even in the temporary physical realm we regard it as sacred. Because it is so sacred that is why we give it to the service of our life giver in this world.