Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Kuldeep · Jun 19, 2007, 07:42 am

Just posted my views about "Is life good or bad ?"

I asked the thread opener, what type of life he is asking about. Next moment question wandered in my mind :

What is Life by itself ??

I recall the sticky thread "Does life start at conception". Some discussion did occur therein, but it is shadowed long back. I thought of giving life to that discussed life and would like to hear others what they think about "What is Life?"

**Jack** · Jun 21, 2007, 01:14 am

I think of life as an extremely brief moment time in which we experience consciousness. For the rest of time (before and after) we don't exist.

Kuldeep · Jun 21, 2007, 01:49 am

Isher, the problem with this consciousness is that we are concious of our existence not earlier than say minimum 3 years of age. From this, we no way mean, all children below the age of 3 years do not have life.

If I turn to science, it would tell us all living beings have two type of lives: Clinical Life and Brain Life. I took out these words from Clinical death & Brain death. Truley speaking I am not aware, what is behind both these types of lives. I would say that is the real cause of making both types of lives possible !!!

Now if we go away to find what is plant life...may be definition still may differ !!!!

In conclusion, question remains; What is Life ???

Athena · Jun 21, 2007, 02:14 am

I don't find it so easy to define life. Crystals grow and they respond to thought energy. Remember the pictures of microscopic drops of water that were different depending on the thought projected prior to examination of the water? I think, to think of life as our limited perception of it is in error. I think experiements with crytals suggest there is more.

I am not sure what light is, nor what any manifestation we think of as solid matter, really is. Absolutely everything is energy.

Chardin said God is asleep in rocks and minerals, waking in plants and animals, to know self in man. Surely life is much more than human beings. But we could be the active quality of God consciousness. Our sense of separation from God may be deillusion. Our egos may be deillusions. All that is may be God, and that makes God life.

**Jack** · Jun 21, 2007, 02:22 am

Quote:

the problem with this consciousness is that we are concious of our existence not earlier than say minimum 3 years of age. From this, we no way mean, all children below the age of 3 years do not have life.

I may have chosen the wrong terminology. I meant to say that we have a nearly infinitesimally small amount of time to be alive in between vast periods of time when we don't exist. So basically, I see life as a momentary exception to our usual state, which is nonexistence.

Kuldeep · Jun 21, 2007, 05:22 am

Athena, your logic tells me Life like God is beyond conception. So, I would not be able to get the correct answer to my OP question so easily. Or, specific single definition of Life !!!

Your last two sentences contain the gist of MY conception of God (SOMETHING) whose one of infinite properties is our universe. This universe is full of life. This life exists in right from electron, photon to full universe. In context to this, I would dare defining Life as:

LIFE IS THE FORCE, WHICH RUNS THIS WHOLE UNIVERSE !!!

And one who has that force is my unconeivable SOMETHING (GOD) !!!

tinybear · Jun 21, 2007, 05:32 am

Life may well be grossly overrated. Death might be much better. Trouble is we're afraid to find out 'cos we're naturally afraid of the unknown.

Kuldeep · Jun 22, 2007, 03:16 am

We are not afraid of unknown but, we are afraid of death because we see others die and nobody has seen his own death. We feel our existence would vanish after death and that is what fears us.

tinybear · Jun 22, 2007, 04:10 am

But nobody knows what happens after death. For all we know, death might be far better than life.

improvident · Jun 22, 2007, 05:27 am

I think there are 2.. or more types of life.. the life we are aware and conscious of in the here and now.. and the life that is after this one.. maybe not so much after.. as behind..

To think that we are what we are.. nothing more nothing less.. is very simple minded.. I feel that what we are now.. is one of a possible many conscious moments we experience in the life behind.. what is the life behind our current life should be the question at hand..

As for that question.. im not really sure.. is everyone connected in the life that is behind to create one whole being of consciousness..which is then split and separated and grouped togther..then processed back through and done again? The splitting separating and joining together is what we gather as our consciousness in the here and now.. and the infinite numbers of consciousness one might have after this 'life'.. If that is true then what makes that.. and what makes whatever makes that.. Is it possible that life as we consider it.. is beyond microscopic to some higher being that is too infinitively huge for our tiny minuscule brains to comprehend.. That life continues on every level of existence.. from the smallest of smalls to the largest or larges.. but the catch is that at any point in time while in one layer.. you can only be marginally aware of life on any other scale..

Think about a cell.. of a human.. on earth.. inside of a galaxy.. inside a universe..The cell isnt the smallest of workings.. inside the cell.. there is life.. making the life of the cell.. allowing the cell to live.. and what makes the inner working of a cell make life for a cell.. would not there have to be some other smaller still form of life.. and so on and so on.. In my opinion life can not function without the smallest of these smalls nor the largest of the larges.. it all comes full circle.. the smallest builds up bigger and bigger.. and bigger and bigger.. to generate life beyond the size of a galaxy.. to a size we cant even begin to comprehend.. Each planet in each galaxy could be like a cell.. to a human..to something else..So who or what is to say that we as humans in the here and now.. are not just a smaller working of the insides.. of the insides of some cell for something else?

We only know what we know because we have been told to know it..Sometimes I think we give our selfs too much credit.. We think we are the ultimate.. the biggest and the best.. nothing else compares.. I think its very realistic.. and leveling to think that we are so small in the grand scheme of EVERYTHING.. that the largest of the larges.. they dont even know we exist..

I apologize for rambling.. But who is to also say that we.. more so our conscious mind.. doesnt go on to other levels of this life.. from the smallest to the largest? And if it does...does it change what we are...or are we as we are in the here and now? Look into the workings of a cell.. everything that happens happens in a certain sequence.. things are made.. then they travel to point a.. do their job.. then travel to point b.. and die.The cell's death however is not in vein.. their job.. is to keep something larger than them selfs alive..to allow it to do its specific job... to keep something else alive and eventually die.. and so on and so forth..Those inner workings of a cell are much like human life..you get up.. you eat.. you drink.. you work.. and you sleep again..then you do it all over again.. then one day.. you die...

My apologies for the ramble.. just got to thinking and coudlnt stop typing lol

Kuldeep · Jun 22, 2007, 07:04 am

@ improvident

Never mind !!!

I admire your strenous and seemingly logical explanation. What you are confusing with is the size of the identity. For life, size is immaterial. If any identity has the feeling of existence (in your words, smallest of small and largest of large) be sure means IT HAS LIFE. This sense of existence that it is something, is called EGO in technical term.

Let me explain this with an example of a micro-organism, cell, ant, small bird, a dog, man, elephant...dinasour. All these have life (Life as we know what life is) containing full range (as far size is concerned) all have feeling that they exist as something as you and me. Leaving IQ and intelligence aside, the feeling they exist as something is same with all. This feeling of theirs is LIFE.

To my best of conception that feeling of existence (LIFE IN TRUE SENSE) is well there in everything; living, non living, conceivable and non conceivable. This LIFE I have already defined in my previous post.

Kuldeep · Jun 22, 2007, 07:13 am

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

But nobody knows what happens after death. For all we know, death might be far better than life.

Agreed, nobody knows what happens after death. I can tell you nothing would change after death in your personality, except you lose your physical body. Rest, everything, particularly your LIFE (sense of feeling that you exist as something) would remain uneffected. You remain as real as in dream.

Therefore, I can confidently tell you that, death never be better than life, it would be exactly same as this life. Your personality would never change !!!

Athena · Jun 23, 2007, 11:13 am

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

But nobody knows what happens after death. For all we know, death might be far better than life.

If there is no consciousness after death, how could it be better than life?

If there is consciousness after death, then there is life after death, and what our senses tell us about life is not all there is to know about life. In this case there is no death, but a transformation from one condition of life to another.

Athena · Jun 23, 2007, 11:16 am

Quote:

Quote by: Kuldeep

Agreed, nobody knows what happens after death. I can tell you nothing would change after death in your personality, except you lose your physical body. Rest, everything, particularly your LIFE (sense of feeling that you exist as something) would remain uneffected. You remain as real as in dream.

Therefore, I can confidently tell you that, death never be better than life, it would be exactly same as this life. Your personality would never change !!!

Kuldeep, you are taking away my hope of experiencing a better personality. I really like to experience myself differently from how I do experience myself, and I was hoping for a big change.

Athena · Jun 23, 2007, 11:40 am

Quote:

Quote by: improvident

I think there are 2.. or more types of life.. the life we are aware and conscious of in the here and now.. and the life that is after this one.. maybe not so much after.. as behind..

To think that we are what we are.. nothing more nothing less.. is very simple minded.. I feel that what we are now.. is one of a possible many conscious moments we experience in the life behind.. what is the life behind our current life should be the question at hand..

As for that question.. im not really sure.. is everyone connected in the life that is behind to create one whole being of consciousness..which is then split and separated and grouped togther..then processed back through and done again? The splitting separating and joining together is what we gather as our consciousness in the here and now.. and the infinite numbers of consciousness one might have after this 'life'.. If that is true then what makes that.. and what makes whatever makes that.. Is it possible that life as we consider it.. is beyond microscopic to some higher being that is too infinitively huge for our tiny minuscule brains to comprehend.. That life continues on every level of existence.. from the smallest of smalls to the largest or larges.. but the catch is that at any point in time while in one layer.. you can only be marginally aware of life on any other scale..

Think about a cell.. of a human.. on earth.. inside of a galaxy.. inside a universe..The cell isnt the smallest of workings.. inside the cell.. there is life.. making the life of the cell.. allowing the cell to live.. and what makes the inner working of a cell make life for a cell.. would not there have to be some other smaller still form of life.. and so on and so on.. In my opinion life can not function without the smallest of these smalls nor the largest of the larges.. it all comes full circle.. the smallest builds up bigger and bigger.. and bigger and bigger.. to generate life beyond the size of a galaxy.. to a size we cant even begin to comprehend.. Each planet in each galaxy could be like a cell.. to a human..to something else..So who or what is to say that we as humans in the here and now.. are not just a smaller working of the insides.. of the insides of some cell for something else?

We only know what we know because we have been told to know it..Sometimes I think we give our selfs too much credit.. We think we are the ultimate.. the biggest and the best.. nothing else compares.. I think its very realistic.. and leveling to think that we are so small in the grand scheme of EVERYTHING.. that the largest of the larges.. they dont even know we exist..

I apologize for rambling.. But who is to also say that we.. more so our conscious mind.. doesnt go on to other levels of this life.. from the smallest to the largest? And if it does...does it change what we are...or are we as we are in the here and now? Look into the workings of a cell.. everything that happens happens in a certain sequence.. things are made.. then they travel to point a.. do their job.. then travel to point b.. and die.The cell's death however is not in vein.. their job.. is to keep something larger than them selfs alive..to allow it to do its specific job... to keep something else alive and eventually die.. and so on and so forth..Those inner workings of a cell are much like human life..you get up.. you eat.. you drink.. you work.. and you sleep again..then you do it all over again.. then one day.. you die...

My apologies for the ramble.. just got to thinking and coudlnt stop typing lol

I am very glad I had time to read your ramblings. I could go with a religion based on what you said here.

I disagree with what Kuldeep said about remaining same personality, but maybe this is just a disagreement about the meaning of the word personality? I do not want to be the person I think I was in a past incarnation, because I want to be the person I am now. However, I am not fully satisfied with the person I am now and look forward to experiencing myself differently. However, this voice, that sensation of who I am, the observer, I don't think has personality of its own? Yet I am attached to this observer and hope it continues when the body I have now is dead.

I look forward to a splitting away and a new joining, new experience.

Mayan held that all the suns and planets are living organism. At least our earth is very much a living organism.

Kuldeep · Jun 25, 2007, 02:55 am

Quote:

Quote by: Athena

Kuldeep, you are taking away my hope of experiencing a better personality. I really like to experience myself differently from how I do experience myself, and I was hoping for a big change.

No, I am not ! What I meant by personality, you did not get it. Just see below:

1. Exactly, you did not understand what I meant by personality. In one word I would say, by personality I mean your NATURE and I said that would never change. Your likes, dislikes, hobbies, your good and bad qualities all that combine to make your NATURE. After you leave present body,You would exactly feel same way as you feel in dream. However, in dream you would remember your physical body to some extent but after you get a different body you would represent yourself with respect to that body say in next birth. In between the two bodies (Not so easy to tell with sureity). I think probably, you would represent yourself with previous body only, which depends upon your memory or attention to what you call yourself.

2. I can assure you that you are and would be the master of your own physical as well metaphysical mind. Your any type of hope would be fulfilled as you long as your wish is firm. Even your firmness of wish falls in the perview of your NATURE only.

3. I agree with Mayan statement but, type of life in them is not what we mean, viz; taking breath, beating heart or thinkng or memorizing and the like....but just feeling of existence type of life...I mean even Sun, stars and Earth feel they exist !!! O.K, you may call it Universal Consciousness. That is real life !!!!

4. And that Life is the real life (feeling of existence) exists in whole universe smallest of small and biggest of big as tried to explain by improvident but in different language.

Jun 19, 2007, 07:42 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Kuldeep Kuldeep Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 1,640	What is Life ?? Just posted my views about "Is life good or bad ?" I asked the thread opener, what type of life he is asking about. Next moment question wandered in my mind : What is Life by itself ?? I recall the sticky thread "Does life start at conception". Some discussion did occur therein, but it is shadowed long back. I thought of giving life to that discussed life and would like to hear others what they think about "What is Life?"

Jun 21, 2007, 01:14 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 13,001	I think of life as an extremely brief moment time in which we experience consciousness. For the rest of time (before and after) we don't exist. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jun 21, 2007, 01:49 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Kuldeep Kuldeep Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 1,640	Isher, the problem with this consciousness is that we are concious of our existence not earlier than say minimum 3 years of age. From this, we no way mean, all children below the age of 3 years do not have life. If I turn to science, it would tell us all living beings have two type of lives: Clinical Life and Brain Life. I took out these words from Clinical death & Brain death. Truley speaking I am not aware, what is behind both these types of lives. I would say that is the real cause of making both types of lives possible !!! Now if we go away to find what is plant life...may be definition still may differ !!!! In conclusion, question remains; What is Life ??? Last edited by Kuldeep; Jun 21, 2007 at 01:53 am. Reason: correction

Jun 21, 2007, 05:22 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
Kuldeep Kuldeep Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 1,640	Athena, your logic tells me Life like God is beyond conception. So, I would not be able to get the correct answer to my OP question so easily. Or, specific single definition of Life !!! Your last two sentences contain the gist of MY conception of God (SOMETHING) whose one of infinite properties is our universe. This universe is full of life. This life exists in right from electron, photon to full universe. In context to this, I would dare defining Life as: LIFE IS THE FORCE, WHICH RUNS THIS WHOLE UNIVERSE !!! And one who has that force is my unconeivable SOMETHING (GOD) !!! Last edited by Kuldeep; Jun 21, 2007 at 05:35 am. Reason: Addition

Jun 22, 2007, 05:27 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
improvident Igneous Magma Location: Tennessee Posts: 213	I think there are 2.. or more types of life.. the life we are aware and conscious of in the here and now.. and the life that is after this one.. maybe not so much after.. as behind.. To think that we are what we are.. nothing more nothing less.. is very simple minded.. I feel that what we are now.. is one of a possible many conscious moments we experience in the life behind.. what is the life behind our current life should be the question at hand.. As for that question.. im not really sure.. is everyone connected in the life that is behind to create one whole being of consciousness..which is then split and separated and grouped togther..then processed back through and done again? The splitting separating and joining together is what we gather as our consciousness in the here and now.. and the infinite numbers of consciousness one might have after this 'life'.. If that is true then what makes that.. and what makes whatever makes that.. Is it possible that life as we consider it.. is beyond microscopic to some higher being that is too infinitively huge for our tiny minuscule brains to comprehend.. That life continues on every level of existence.. from the smallest of smalls to the largest or larges.. but the catch is that at any point in time while in one layer.. you can only be marginally aware of life on any other scale.. Think about a cell.. of a human.. on earth.. inside of a galaxy.. inside a universe..The cell isnt the smallest of workings.. inside the cell.. there is life.. making the life of the cell.. allowing the cell to live.. and what makes the inner working of a cell make life for a cell.. would not there have to be some other smaller still form of life.. and so on and so on.. In my opinion life can not function without the smallest of these smalls nor the largest of the larges.. it all comes full circle.. the smallest builds up bigger and bigger.. and bigger and bigger.. to generate life beyond the size of a galaxy.. to a size we cant even begin to comprehend.. Each planet in each galaxy could be like a cell.. to a human..to something else..So who or what is to say that we as humans in the here and now.. are not just a smaller working of the insides.. of the insides of some cell for something else? We only know what we know because we have been told to know it..Sometimes I think we give our selfs too much credit.. We think we are the ultimate.. the biggest and the best.. nothing else compares.. I think its very realistic.. and leveling to think that we are so small in the grand scheme of EVERYTHING.. that the largest of the larges.. they dont even know we exist.. I apologize for rambling.. But who is to also say that we.. more so our conscious mind.. doesnt go on to other levels of this life.. from the smallest to the largest? And if it does...does it change what we are...or are we as we are in the here and now? Look into the workings of a cell.. everything that happens happens in a certain sequence.. things are made.. then they travel to point a.. do their job.. then travel to point b.. and die.The cell's death however is not in vein.. their job.. is to keep something larger than them selfs alive..to allow it to do its specific job... to keep something else alive and eventually die.. and so on and so forth..Those inner workings of a cell are much like human life..you get up.. you eat.. you drink.. you work.. and you sleep again..then you do it all over again.. then one day.. you die... My apologies for the ramble.. just got to thinking and coudlnt stop typing lol You Can't Understand A User's Mind But Try, With Your Books And Degrees If You Let Yourself Go And Open Your Mind I'll Bet You'd Be Doing Like Me And It Ain't So Bad -Alice in Chains : Junkhead

Jun 21, 2007, 02:14 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Athena Iconoclast Posts: 5,077	I don't find it so easy to define life. Crystals grow and they respond to thought energy. Remember the pictures of microscopic drops of water that were different depending on the thought projected prior to examination of the water? I think, to think of life as our limited perception of it is in error. I think experiements with crytals suggest there is more. I am not sure what light is, nor what any manifestation we think of as solid matter, really is. Absolutely everything is energy. Chardin said God is asleep in rocks and minerals, waking in plants and animals, to know self in man. Surely life is much more than human beings. But we could be the active quality of God consciousness. Our sense of separation from God may be deillusion. Our egos may be deillusions. All that is may be God, and that makes God life.

Jun 21, 2007, 05:32 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,008	Life may well be grossly overrated. Death might be much better. Trouble is we're afraid to find out 'cos we're naturally afraid of the unknown.

Jun 22, 2007, 03:16 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Kuldeep Kuldeep Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 1,640	We are not afraid of unknown but, we are afraid of death because we see others die and nobody has seen his own death. We feel our existence would vanish after death and that is what fears us.

Jun 22, 2007, 04:10 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,008	But nobody knows what happens after death. For all we know, death might be far better than life.

Jun 22, 2007, 07:04 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
Kuldeep Kuldeep Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 1,640	@ improvident Never mind !!! I admire your strenous and seemingly logical explanation. What you are confusing with is the size of the identity. For life, size is immaterial. If any identity has the feeling of existence (in your words, smallest of small and largest of large) be sure means IT HAS LIFE. This sense of existence that it is something, is called EGO in technical term. Let me explain this with an example of a micro-organism, cell, ant, small bird, a dog, man, elephant...dinasour. All these have life (Life as we know what life is) containing full range (as far size is concerned) all have feeling that they exist as something as you and me. Leaving IQ and intelligence aside, the feeling they exist as something is same with all. This feeling of theirs is LIFE. To my best of conception that feeling of existence (LIFE IN TRUE SENSE) is well there in everything; living, non living, conceivable and non conceivable. This LIFE I have already defined in my previous post.