A 'relationship' with God

[pikatore]

To sum up mine is to say that I don't have a religion. It is a relationship. I commune with God daily and I have to admit, obedience is a point I must be stronger in.

My question is, what IS a relationship with God? Lots and lots of prayer? And keeping an eye out for signs in return?

[ZNFYRH]

What makes a relationship in real life?

I would answer it is feeling comfortable communicating with the other person.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: ZNFYRH I would answer it is feeling comfortable communicating with the other person.

That would make a "relationship" with god terribly unhealthy. Communication has to be between two or more parties. One party talking to no one isn't communication.

Could you imagine if we had a relationship with another person the way we have a relationship with god?

You go over to this person's "house" which is occasionally unlocked and maintained by people who are allegedly friends of this person. You show up there and talk at this person who never replies. Instead, you have to look for things happening in your day to day life and delude yourself into thinking this other person is "communicating" with you.

At best you'd be written off as loopy and at worst institutionalized.

No... a "relationship" with god is part of Christian marketing. They are selling a product and convincing customers they're on a first name basis with the almighty is what helps keep the collections plate full and the seats occupied.

[Thunder]

A lot of Christians consider a relationship to be obedient to God's will, and having faith that God will lead you and better your life.

The relationship is more of a child - parent thing.

[pikatore]

Quote by: Thunder A lot of Christians consider a relationship to be obedient to God's will, and having faith that God will lead you and better your life. The relationship is more of a child - parent thing.

Ok firstly. Leading you is what? Telling you what to do directly? Or having you read the bible and be preached to every sunday?

[Thunder]

I know for a fact that Christianity goes further than just being preached to and reading the bible.

It is understanding the word, and abiding by it.

[pikatore]

Quote by: Thunder I know for a fact that Christianity goes further than just being preached to and reading the bible. It is understanding the word, and abiding by it.

So it's not just listening to sermons and reading the bible, but doing what it tells you, and what the priests tell you.

But, how does one have a relationship, where there is assumedly two way communication, with god?

[ZNFYRH]

There are more ways to communicate than with direct speech.

There are people who pray lightly and enjoy the simple pleasures in life and connect the two.

Whether or not you believe it, they do.

And there are some people who have an unhealthy relationship with God. So there is a specific difference.

[texasdave]

A relationsip with Jesus Christ is through prayer and His Word. It is also found in the loving arms of your spouse, playing with children, and the awesome beauty of His creation. God speaks to His children in a myriad of ways.

[Jack]

how does one have a relationship

What kind of relationship can you have with something that threatens to torture you for all eternity if you refuse to love and worship it? That's an unhealthy attitude to begin any relationship with.

[pikatore]

Quote by: texasdave God speaks to His children in a myriad of ways.

But he doesn't speak, does he? How do you know that all these abtract, seemingly unrelated things, are 'answers', or even forms of communication to begin with? A person who is definetely going to hell can still experiance all those things.

[Athena]

Quote by: ZNFYRH What makes a relationship in real life? I would answer it is feeling comfortable communicating with the other person.

Wow, your statement triggered a thought. We have different kinds of relationships. Sometimes we can be married and happy in that relationship. Sometimes we are married and not happy in that relationship. Our happiness or dissatisfaction, depends highly on our expectations. If things are going the way we want, the relationship is good. If things are not going the way we want, the relationship is bad.

Curiously once the relationship has started it doesn't end, unless it was such a minor relationship, it is forgotten. Our relationships are either active or inactive. In a separation, the relationship doesn't end, but remains as the relationship was at the time of separation.

Here we are speaking of a relationship with God. My relationship with God has changed over the years. I have always felt this emotion for a spiritual existence I do not directly experience and understand. Perhaps God, for me, is only a projection of myself. Like I am sure Satan is not real, but a projection of the evil people of which people think. It doesn't matter, because as long as I experience this love with God, it is in fact real for me.

Ever since reading about the Sumerian relationship with a deity, I have enjoyed an increased sense of awe and appreciation in relation to God. I perfer this greatly over the fear of the biblical God. I think Christianity is a very morbid religion with its focus on sin and God's punishment. The religion can also lead to terrible disappointment if one expects protection and blessings in return for worship of this God. I rather be an innocent child not knowing what to expect and just enjoying the experience as it happens, then something born in sin fearing God's punishment. That kind of says, our relationship with God depends on how we think of this God.

Note, even atheist are having a relationship with God. God is more real to them than baswash, because they have a concept of what God is. This is a prequesit of arguing there is not a God. They hold a concept of what God is, and do not have a conept of what baswash is. However they feel in response to their concept of God, is their relationship with God. It can be disbelief and rejection, but it is still a reaction to "God". A relationship with God. Just like trying to avoid a stocker is, having a relationship with this person. It just isn't the relationship the stocker wants. Athiest just don't want any part of the relationship God wants with them.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: ZNFYRH There are more ways to communicate than with direct speech. There are people who pray lightly and enjoy the simple pleasures in life and connect the two.

How is that a relationship? A child who finds simple pleasure in hosting a tea party for an imaginary friend does not have a "relationship" with anyone save her own imagination.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: texasdave God speaks to His children in a myriad of ways.

Nope. You're wrong. Since we know god / Jesus don't exist all you're doing is looking at positive aspects of your life and declaring "goddidit". That's not a relationship. That's delusion.

[pikatore]

Quote by: Athena Note, even atheist are having a relationship with God. God is more real to them than baswash, because they have a concept of what God is. This is a prequesit of arguing there is not a God. They hold a concept of what God is, and do not have a conept of what baswash is. However they feel in response to their concept of God, is their relationship with God. It can be disbelief and rejection, but it is still a reaction to "God". A relationship with God. Just like trying to avoid a stocker is having a relationship with this person. It just isn't the relationship the stocker wants. Athiest just don't want any part of the relationship God wants with them.

Two things I should set straight here.

1) Atheism doesn't have to be reactionary.

2) Just because there is a concept that was there before I reacted to it, that in no way, shape, or form validates the truth of the concept.

[Captain Cardio]

Note, even atheist are having a relationship with God. God is more real to them than baswash, because they have a concept of what God is. This is a prequesit of arguing there is not a God. They hold a concept of what God is, and do not have a conept of what baswash is. However they feel in response to their concept of God, is their relationship with God. It can be disbelief and rejection, but it is still a reaction to "God". A relationship with God. Just like trying to avoid a stocker is having a relationship with this person. It just isn't the relationship the stocker wants. Athiest just don't want any part of the relationship God wants with them.

I don't think that's true. The person being stalked still knows that the stalker exists. Most athiests aren't thinking that they don't like god or don't want to talk to him. They are thinking that God isn't there, and that people who think God is there, are fooling themselves into believing in him, because it feels good for some people to do so.

[Jack]

even atheist are having a relationship with God

Do you have a relationship with Mohammad, with Vishnu? There can be no realtionship beyond philosophical with a concept.

[ItsDarts]

Good thread Pik, it will be interesting to see how the resident theists will answer. Its a question I've often wondered about. In the common vernacular of the words Relationship and Communication, to me it requires another entity and a "two way" conversation. If we look at the word "entity", we have the following definitions...

1.)Something that exists as a particular and discrete unit: Persons and corporations are equivalent entities under the law.
2.)The fact of existence; being.
3.)The existence of something considered apart from its properties.

We know that god(s) do not fit this definition. We have no evidence of a discreet unit. We have NO facts of a gods existence. We have no evidence of anything called a god apart from its properties.

Since there is no entity, there is no two way communication, there is by default, no relationship. Theists associate "signs" as a form of communication. Totally ignoring that what ever "sign" they perceived is quite probably nothing more than coincidence. Even if the probablility of a coincidence is extremely small, its still coincidence.

Theist "A" prays for a friend to recover from a serious illness, the friend recovers, and Theist A thanks god, instead of thanking the doctors who took it upon themselves to learn the medical profession at a generally great expense. If the friend doesn't recover, they say "it was gods will" instead of thinking that the illness was either non-recoverable in the first place or the doctors screwed up.

A friend of mine was diagnosed with lung cancer. It was a tumor on the right lobe. His wife and other firends all sent out emails asking for us to pray. Doctors told him he had a 20% chance of survival. Fortunately for him, after several chemo and radiation treatments, he is now cancer free. Another email went out thanking everyone who prayed and a side note directed at me (they know I'm an atheist) saying how god works in mysterious ways. I wrote back with my congrats and a side note saying to thank the doctors who fixed him up because they are the true "miracle" workers. Naturally, I didn't get a response back. They never concidered that the 20% chance of survival had anything to do with it.

[texasdave]

isherwood,
God does not put anyone in hell. They choose to go. If you reject relationship with God you get eternal separation from Him because that's what you want. God never takes your free will. Even if your will is to go to hell. The opposite of being with God is hell. It's hell without Him.

[Jack]

That's according to your outlook on life. I don't believe in hell, and my life's pretty good considering. I certainly do my best to enjoy every moment of every day. I have a relationship with reality, if you will.