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Athena · Jun 13, 2007, 12:15 pm

Passion has so much to do with logic. Whatever we feel passionate about, that is what is the foundation of our reasoning. So Patrick Henry gave great passionate reasoning for revolution and comes down through history as a Revolutionary leader. However, he was not otherwise a successful person. Had he been successful in a way that consumed his time and energy in a socially accepted way, he would have remained an unown laborer or business owner.

Historically the United States has been mobilized for war, to defend democracy. However, we stopped defending democracy in the classroom, so by the time of the Vietnam war, young people are not as passionate about defending democracy. They were more apt to see the Vietnam war as defense of shipping lanes and power. As today, many do not see the war, the US started in Iraq, as a defense of democracy; and many argue passionately that the US is not a democracy.

Is it reasonable to believe that the US did start the warring in Iraq by destroying the governing system that maintained law and order and now owes it to the citizens to defend their lives and property from the destruction brought on by US actions? How you argue this will depend on what you feel passionate about.

Is the US where Rome was when Rome fell? Again how you answer this will depend on what you feel passionate about, and both sides will be able to make logical arguments X, but the argument between the two sides will not be logical, but an unnamed W verses M.

Maybe our debates will be improved with increased awareness of what we feel passionate about, because they are not just logical. Logic can be used to argue all sides of a disagreement. X is true for both sides. However, the whole argument can be distorted when people believe they are arguing about X, but instead are arguing about passions they have not yet identified. These results in very illogical arguments because the subject is not really the foundation of the argument.

ZNFYRH · Jun 13, 2007, 01:58 pm

Athena

I run into that a lot.

There are some issues where I have two stances. One reflects a logical and objective assessment, and the other reflects where my passions lie.

I have observed on VC that when someone argues from their passions they quickly become offended by disagreement because they are seeing it as an affront to who they are.

Autolykos · Jun 13, 2007, 02:02 pm

Passion has nothing to do with logic. Evar.

End of story.

- Rob

Arawn-ap-Hywel · Jun 13, 2007, 02:03 pm

Athena for me passion is a loss of control, thus unacceptable

Maybe-not · Jun 13, 2007, 02:11 pm

For me, Passion is love in an activity.

You can also feel passion for another person, but that would really be another version and degree of love.

ZNFYRH · Jun 13, 2007, 02:13 pm

Good point.

Related to that, I always associate passion not as a noun, but more as a modifier.

For example, I love my daughter, but I passionately love my wife.

Jun 13, 2007, 12:15 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Athena Volcanic Erupter Location: Oregon Posts: 5,172	Passion Passion has so much to do with logic. Whatever we feel passionate about, that is what is the foundation of our reasoning. So Patrick Henry gave great passionate reasoning for revolution and comes down through history as a Revolutionary leader. However, he was not otherwise a successful person. Had he been successful in a way that consumed his time and energy in a socially accepted way, he would have remained an unown laborer or business owner. Historically the United States has been mobilized for war, to defend democracy. However, we stopped defending democracy in the classroom, so by the time of the Vietnam war, young people are not as passionate about defending democracy. They were more apt to see the Vietnam war as defense of shipping lanes and power. As today, many do not see the war, the US started in Iraq, as a defense of democracy; and many argue passionately that the US is not a democracy. Is it reasonable to believe that the US did start the warring in Iraq by destroying the governing system that maintained law and order and now owes it to the citizens to defend their lives and property from the destruction brought on by US actions? How you argue this will depend on what you feel passionate about. Is the US where Rome was when Rome fell? Again how you answer this will depend on what you feel passionate about, and both sides will be able to make logical arguments X, but the argument between the two sides will not be logical, but an unnamed W verses M. Maybe our debates will be improved with increased awareness of what we feel passionate about, because they are not just logical. Logic can be used to argue all sides of a disagreement. X is true for both sides. However, the whole argument can be distorted when people believe they are arguing about X, but instead are arguing about passions they have not yet identified. These results in very illogical arguments because the subject is not really the foundation of the argument.

Jun 13, 2007, 02:02 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Autolykos Logical Phallussy Location: In your internets. Posts: 2,991	Passion has nothing to do with logic. Evar. End of story. - Rob "I'd rather be free and alive!" -- Ron Paul Religion isn't the greatest threat to mankind -- authoritarianism is. The Anarcheion Zeitgeist

Jun 13, 2007, 01:58 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
ZNFYRH Volcanic Erupter Posts: 4,375	Athena I run into that a lot. There are some issues where I have two stances. One reflects a logical and objective assessment, and the other reflects where my passions lie. I have observed on VC that when someone argues from their passions they quickly become offended by disagreement because they are seeing it as an affront to who they are.

Jun 13, 2007, 02:03 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Arawn-ap-Hywel Hot Lava Posts: 1,124	Athena for me passion is a loss of control, thus unacceptable

Jun 13, 2007, 02:11 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Maybe-not Liberal Communist. Location: In your base, killing your d00ds. Posts: 233	For me, Passion is love in an activity. You can also feel passion for another person, but that would really be another version and degree of love.

Jun 13, 2007, 02:13 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
ZNFYRH Volcanic Erupter Posts: 4,375	Good point. Related to that, I always associate passion not as a noun, but more as a modifier. For example, I love my daughter, but I passionately love my wife.