Brainwashed Believers?

[Technosoul]

While researching another project I came across this article called Hypnotic Christanity?.

This article attempts to show the difference between the brainwashed believers and those who acturally have faith in Truth.

It seems like a topic worthy of debate, whatcha' think?

Hypnotic Christianity?

[Zhavric]

Where do you find these people?

The Foundation of Human Understanding was founded by Roy Masters in 1963 as a 501(c)(3) non-profit church organization. As a recognized and registered religious organization, the Foundation is dedicated to assisting anyone who is interested in perfecting their spiritual natures through the principles of Judeo Christianity. We do this by providing counseling, materials, lectures and assistance to anyone through radio programs, published materials and the World Wide Web.

FHU - About the Foundation

More information on them here: Religious Movements Homepage: Foundation of Human Understanding

Founder: Roy Masters; born Ruben Obermeister

Date of Birth: 1928

Birth Place: England

Year Founded: 1961, Los Angeles, California

Brief History: Masters spent the early part of his life working with a stage hypnotist. Later, he moved to South Africa and quenched his knowledge about mental processes by working with witch doctors in the area. In 1949 he returned to the United States and became a well known diamond expert. After the Bridey Murphy case reinvigorated interest in reincarnation and hypnosis, Masters found himself surrounded with friends who wanted him to demonstrate his hypnotic abilities. Masters began conducting sessions, hypnotizing associates.

The hypnotist alleging other Christians hypnotize their followers. Gee... I wonder...

[ZNFYRH]

Technosoul

Cool article.

I was always told that hypnotism doesn't convince you to do anything you wouldn't do anyway. It only relaxes your emotional inhibitions. Your logical ones are still in place. You can't hypnotize someone to slap their wife, for example, if they wouldn't do it otherwise, and the confusion stems from that person make the logical decision not to instead of an emotional one.

Faith is the basis of patience, and patience appears as a non-response to the world. It separates you from taking shape from evil as it joins, and then strengthens, your relationship to God, who can be trusted to reveal things as they really are.

I agree with that. After attending Anger Management training, I found that if I didn't get worked up and pissed off, people thought I didn't care. It was frustrating to have to tell someone, "Just because I'm not raising hell doesn't mean I'm not pissed off about this."

I think hypnotism allows for clearer thought and clearer reasoning. For those who are hypnotized into believing, it's not like they are being fooled or tricked. They are just taking a clear-headed approach to the idea and deciding to do it.

[Technosoul]

There are different kinds of hypnotic procedures. Some "guided meditations" use hypnotic procedures.

I have used the "meditation" tape provided by the FHU (used it in the 1960s). Which is titled "How your mind can keep you well".

The concept is that we can be manipulated through our emotions by other people. If they get us upset, mad, fearfull, etc. they are controlling the situation. Through your own anger people can hypnotically gain control over your behavior while you believe you act out of free will. The tape helps to counter-act that by repeating the suggestion that you should "over look and make allowances" for the mean things people say or do to you. This gives you distance and time to think first, by not not employing impulsive reactions you can deal with things in a calm and therefore logical manner.

This has nothing to do with hypnotically making people believe in God or such nonsense.

Next is learnng how to remain apart from praise and other "nice" things people do to hypnotically get you to do their will.

And like the old love and hate cycles that keep a person enslaved to their hypnotic master. All the tricks are brought to the light of understanding so that you cannot be decieved by them.

It is a anti-hypnotic procedure to set people free. And in that calmer state to become more aware of what's happening so that those insights you gain can work as an innate guidence from within.

This can cause some falling out with old friends who are used to you reacting emotionally, as they start to loose control over you they will think you have become a Zombie. If you boss cannot upset you he will think that you don't care about your job. Etc.

But new friends will appear as well as new jobs. Once you are good at it you can pretend to be "very concerned" for the boss, to keep the job.
But not really motivated by him/her.

Remember the guy in the movie Office Space. And the effect his hypnotic relaxation had on his work attitudes, well, this is not like that.
But a little like that.

It is called the fore-knowledge procedure (also). If I told you that I would say something to up-set you then you would be prepared and would not fall prey to my attempts to do so. Using the tape in the morning prepares you to expect people to try to upset you so that you are prepared and looking forward to the chance to "overlook and make allowances". (aka-forgive - but not as hind-site - but in the moment as fore-site).

Well enough for now... I am starting to sound like some disciple and that is one of my taboos.

[texasdave]

Maybe unbelievers are brainwashed. I think so.

[Jack]

Texasdave, this is a debate forum. We would appreciate at least occasionally statements put forth as fact be supported by some sort of reference. I'd ask that you find something that supports your contention. Who brainwashes unbelievers? How is that done? What makes you think it happens? Why is it done?

If you insist on pontificating, I'm going to have to consider many of your posts as weasel words.

Weasel words are words or phrases that seemingly support statements without attributing opinions to verifiable sources, lending them the force of authority without letting the reader decide whether the source of the opinion is reliable. If a statement can't stand on its own without weasel words, it lacks neutral point of view, and the lack of given sources also implies a verifiability issue. Either a source for the statement should be found, or the statement should be removed. The emergence of weasel-worded statements often has its roots in biased or normative statements, e.g. "Montreal is the best city in the world". Often, people who are convinced that some statement or other is true naturally want to see it mentioned in the articles where it is relevant; however, statements such as these tend to jump out at the reader as obvious opinion-stated-as-fact and quickly get rooted out. The problem of the weasel words starts when an editor realizes this and attempts to remedy the situation by modifying the statement to at least admit that it is not necessarily factual, e.g. "Some people say Montreal is the best city in the world. " At first glance, this rephrasing appears to have solved the problem - clearly "some people say" does not equate to "it is a fact that". Yet it remains uninformative in a very fundamental sense, as the context of this statement is crucial to comprehending its significance, and none is provided.

Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Isherwood Texasdave, this is a debate forum. We would appreciate at least occasionally statements put forth as fact be supported by some sort of reference. I'd ask that you find something that supports your contention. Who brainwashes unbelievers? How is that done? What makes you think it happens? Why is it done? If you insist on pontificating, I'm going to have to consider many of your posts as weasel words. Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He gave his source when he stated "I think so". (meaning that is what he thinks). Can his "thinking" be concidered the source of his opinon?
When concidering the source? If so stated?

He also prefaced the statement with the word "maybe" which removes it from the context of being a absolute fact. (relative fact). Turning it more in the direction of a question.

Or perhaps Texasdave read this persons website. In the latter part the person states that "satanists useing hynoptic suggestions that have poetic tones during their "Goat riturals".

The webwriter claims to have enough proof to file legal papers in a court of law.

It is all I can find when I attempted to research his claim via google search on the idea.

No telling what you can find on the internet!

CclNews> December 21st is Satanist Human-Sacrifice Day; Baby Cut From Momma For This Purpose, Probably <Fwd>

[Jack]

Even personal opinions should provide elaboration on the thought processes that lead to that opinion, something to defend your opinion in a debate beyond a one-liner. "I think so". Why does he think so? What is his opinion based on?
Without some content, we're left to guess at what he means. I'm guessing it's an opinion without any thought behind it.

[Technosoul]

Public schools often repeat ideas over and over until the knowledge sinks in to the learning memory of the students. Repeating ideas can have a hypnotic like effect in establishing beliefs. A famous qoute by Hitler was "repeat a lie over and over enough times and it becomes the truth". But I am not sure how much "brainwashing" is also classified as being "hypnotic". Repeating the idea of evolution over and over in the presence of kids who go into a trance created by the boredom of a school classroom can be hypnotically influenced by the words suggested, it would seem.

Here is another book and it is about secular brainwashing and no doubt this material would include data about the relationship between brainwashing and hypnotic influences.

FHU - Soviet Textbook on Psychopolitics

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Isherwood Even personal opinions should provide elaboration on the thought processes that lead to that opinion, something to defend your opinion in a debate beyond a one-liner. "I think so". Why does he think so? What is his opinion based on? Without some content, we're left to guess at what he means. I'm guessing it's an opinion without any thought behind it.

Well, concidering the source that might be correct. If he is repeating ideas without thinking about them or finding out if they can be supported by real data - could that suggest he was brainwashed?

(are we within the rules of Volconvo with this sidetrack? If not the monitors can remove this one insight from the thread).

[texasdave]

The brainwashing of unbelievers is done by satan's influences and lies in the world. By schools and books, movies etc.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: texasdave The brainwashing of unbelievers is done by satan's influences and lies in the world. By schools and books, movies etc.

Hi Texasdave. I see you survived our minor attacks on the way you think. I knew you would.

I often hear people at Volconvo debating that the leftys are using the media to brainwash people, while the other half thinks the right wing is using the same media to brainwash people. This is rather normal around here.

Paul (I think it was) wrote about "unseen powers and principalities" that operate to decieve people or to promote evil stuff. And you, being a bible person, would be expected to echo that teaching.

According to science antheism must be an effect of a cause. Not sure if the cause is the one Paul imagined. But secular ideas are promoted in many ways just like Christian ideas are promoted.

In my school of thought I believe we should not look outside for things to blame - we should look inside at our own attitudes and the ways we react to worldly conditions - instead. Forget the escape goats by not letting people get your goat.

We cannot pluck a speck of deception from another's perception if we have a rock pile of deceptions in our perception blocking our view.

[texasdave]

What secular people call brainwashing of believers is what we believers call wisdom. There is a huge difference between intelligence and wisdom. The Bible says that in the last days people would be gaining knowledge but losing wisdom. This is because like teenage kids with parents, society has just enough knowledge to think God is stupid. But they lack the wisdom of knowing the limitations of their learning. As teenagers mature they learn that their parents were wiser than first believed. Perhaps the world will mature enough with time to come back to God. If it doesn't blow itself up first.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: Technosoul While researching another project I came across this article called Hypnotic Christanity?. This article attempts to show the difference between the brainwashed believers and those who acturally have faith in Truth. It seems like a topic worthy of debate, whatcha' think? Hypnotic Christianity?

Technosoul why just Christianity, most faiths use ritualised repetiveness, either through prayers, chants or annouciations of religious text.

I wonder if this is a comfort factor, and a form of self hypnosis. Rather than question and discover which takes a great deal of effort, those who repeat get their religious upliftment purely from the ritual because it is normal for them, it is like a childs favoured toy or comforter.

The worshippers mainly require a priest(ess) to lead them through these rituals, to heighten their senses and uplift them, then bring them back to the sesnation of being back. Is this a pack thing, the humans needs as a social animal making the collective hypnosis easier to perform?

Has this been the power of the ancients adapted from the local tribal wiseman, sage, druid etc. Does this need for hypnosis lie deep in manys psychic, probably triggering some kind of endorphic reaction?

Good subject Techno :)

[Jack]

The use of incense and drugs in many cultures would also facilitate a hypnotic state. I think you've raised interesting points of discussion, Arawn-ap-Hywel.

[Technosoul]

The first method used (my opinon based somewhat on logical reasoning) is the primitive campfire. Straring into the flickerng flames of the campfire can relax people and even effect a trance state of mind, once that is done then the hypnotic suggestions would be easy to plant.

This was tested (sorry no links) and the flickering embers have the same rythems of our brain waves when we are in a deep meditative state.

If you stare into the fire (okay to use your fireplace at home) you will notice how that can relax you and soon you might find transidental meditation happening.

That is why in modern methods they relax you so you trance out, before effecting the powers of suggestion to program your brain.