Death PenaltyVs Abortion DP is Moral Abortion isnt

[Mr.Vicchio]

When the aborition debate is brought up, one of the rebuttles used by the pro-choice crowd is that society allows the Death Penalty, so whats the big deal about abortion?

The big deal is all in the manner in which the persons life is judge to be forfeit. On the one hand, you have a woman that decides, for whatever reason, to end the life she is carrying. It could be due to monetary reasons, employment, personal reasons... not ready, didn't want to get pregnant.. the list goes on.. I am NOT TALKING ABOUT SITUATIONS WHERE THE MOTHER IS IN REAL DANGER PHYSICALLY OR RAPE!

It really doesn't matter what her reasons are, the end result is that an innocent life is ended due to the misfortune of being conceived to a woman not wanting a child. Thus the child is aborted, its life stopped before it saw the light of day.

Now take the issue of the Death Penalty. The person in question has been through a trail by his peers, high standard of evidence to proof guilt and multiple appeals before being put to death.

The persons life is ended as punishment for heinous crimes against innocent people. The person in question could have avoided this had they chosen merely to not commit the crime of murder. Instead they volunteered for this punishment by their own actions and choices.

The real irony is, that many anti-Death Penalty activist are also pro-choice, but these same people often profess to claim they cannot bare the thought of an innocent man being put to death by the system. This stance defies logic. It is okay to kill an unborn child but the risk of "putting an innocent man to death" is to high. One would think the situation would be reversed. That the pro-choice activist would be pro Death Penalty as well.

It is interesting to note that the risk of putting an innocent to death does not deter many pro-life activist from supporting the Death Penalty. The difference I believe, is that the Death Penalty has a myriad of safeguards in place to prevent such. Abortionist on the other hand refuse to accept even a twenty-four hour waiting period to get an abortion, or under age consent by the parents or guardians of minors.

This is I feel, a dishonest view on the debate. If the pro-choice crowd were more honest they would welcome such safe-guards to ensure the abortion was truly desired and not a rash act, an impulse reaction.

[Gorgo]

People are in prison largely because they are poor or black, or Latino. People are on death row largely for the same reasons.

Rich white criminals like 'W' don't go to prison.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Because they are poor black or latino eh?

I see, they are poor so its "not thier fault" right?

[Pooeypants]

Hmm, nice stereotyping and clumping together of different groups. For your information, I support capital punishment, shame UK abolished it. Our prisons are getting overcrowded and I don't see why serial killers who get life sentences where by they will never leave prison be allowed to have taxpayer's money wasted to keep them alive.

[Mr.Vicchio]

I didn't clump. I said many, not all. And I agree, why should a murder be allowed to live out his days when the victim is dead?

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, I didn't clump.  I said many, not all.

I would like to see some data to correlate with your claims however.

And I agree, why should a murder be allowed to live out his days when the victim is dead?

But then one might ask, does the state have the right to kill as well?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Yes the state does. Becuase the the state has to set laws and punishment for such. Thus the Death Penalty is not the state killing someone, it is the someone killing themself through their own actions.

[Gorgo]

I don't know what you mean by fault, but if you look at the statistics, people are locked up because of who they are, not what they did.

If you were interested in reducing crime, you'd push education instead of locking up black people. If you were interested in reducing crime, you would push education rather than criminal attacks on other countries.

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, Because they are poor black or latino eh? I see, they are poor so its "not thier fault" right?

[Gorgo]

http://www.november.org/stayinfo/breaking2...2/ZNetWise.html

[Sonart]

Gorgo -- People are in prison largely because they are poor or black, or Latino. People are on death row largely for the same reasons.

I don't believe people are in prison largely because they are poor or black or Latino.

I belive they are in prison in GREATER NUMBERS because they are poor or black or Latino.

[Samildanach]

Depends if you want to live in a democracy or not.
Its pretty much an unspoken law that you have the right to decide to do whatever is consistent with your beliefs with your own body.
If you want to shoot yourself in the head - no one is stopping you.
If you want to self mutilate no one is stopping you.
If you choose to get pregnant a hundred times and have an abortion every time. No one is stopping you. Why? Because its your body and
what you choose to allow/disallow within its confines is up to you and you alone. You want to pass laws regulating peoples procreation rights go find a more restrictive regime to belong to, you will have a better chance that way....maybe a communist or Eastern country would suit you.

[Gorgo]

When you look at the numbers, there is no other reason. It is not to reduce crime, it is not to help anyone, it is to lock up people who are mainly people of color and poor people and to get politicians reelected.

Originally posted by Sonart, I don't believe people are in prison largely because they are poor or black or Latino. I belive they are in prison in GREATER NUMBERS because they are poor or black or Latino.

[Suburbanite]

It is cheaper to keep someone alive for 40 years than to kill them in an American legal system. I like florida's idea, MAKE THEM WORK.

[Samildanach]

I also agree with the make them work philosophy with an extended twist. The worse the crime the more dangerous the work.
See how fast that reforms people. If they agree to do the work then reduce their sentences, if they don't then double them.
Negative incentives work every time. Give a human a choice between two bad options and which one will he take.

[Gorgo]

Actually, if we don't know how to cure the most dangerous people, we should warehouse them and keep them happy. Let them work, or sit, whatever. Let the rest go, cut defense spending drastically and spend the money on education, health care, and a living wage.

That will do more than anything to make this a better place to be.

[PatrickHenry]

No. Prison is cruel. Beat them and release them if they are young and reformable. Execute them for heinous crimes or recidivism. Delete victimless crimes from the code. The money? Stop grabbing my money!

[Mia]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr.Vicchio,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Yes the state does.  Becuase the the state has to set laws and punishment for such.  Thus the Death Penalty is not the state killing someone, it is the someone killing themself through their own actions.[/b]

Your religion doesn't support this, V. I'm surprised.


<!--QuoteBegin-PatrickHenry,
No. Prison is cruel. Beat them and release them if they are young and reformable. Execute them for heinous crimes or recidivism. Delete victimless crimes from the code. The money? Stop grabbing my money![/quote]
Prison is indeed cruel and unusual punishmnent - a violation of our own code.

Getting gang-raped, forced to kill or be killed...not to mention, they come out worse than they went in in many cases! How is that good for society?

[FIFI]

I find that the death penatly arguement is just like beating a dead horse. The government talks big, giving the worst of criminals the death penalty, and promising that when all the appeals have passed and the criminals rights are up, they will recieve an injection in which results in death. Truth is, most criminals out live the victims family, enjoying a long life with three square meals, and often better health care then those of us "outside"
I don't why anyone bothers to talk about this as an issue, since, as I know from experience, they just get off with a lesser penalty anyway.

FOR ALL OUR TALKING, THERE IS NO ACTION.

Call me bitter, but we might as well abolish the death penalty....
we never use it when we should anyway.

[dvartst]

One can dress up the descriptions of both the death penalty and an abortion; and yet they still come down to the same basic idea. Ending a life for the satisfaction of a higher reasoning.
But I believe that these are necessary.
Take away the death penalty and abolish it all together...and the victim/surviving family members of a heinous crime must live with the fact that tax dollars are being spent on the mediocre care of the monster that shattered their life.
Take away abortion...and women are losing their reproductive freedoms.

[G. Adams]

Originally posted by Pooeypants, Hmm, nice stereotyping and clumping together of different groups. For your information, I support capital punishment, shame UK abolished it. Our prisons are getting overcrowded and I don't see why serial killers who get life sentences where by they will never leave prison be allowed to have taxpayer's money wasted to keep them alive.

Pooey, how many serial killers do we have in prison here? I doubt you could fill a wing of Durham Prison. So we would still have an overcrowding problem. Perhaps we should stop locking people up for crimes that don't harm others, such as failure to pay TV licenses or drugs use and sale. The TV license thing is ridiculous, the only reason I think they do it is to claim "we've thrown X many criminals into jail" when it's just single mothers who can't afford the license.