Prejudice against the religious

[Captain Chaos]

I have to confess to a fair amount of bias against religious people. They just often don't seem very bright to me. When I engage them in debate on religious topics, their reasoning is typically atrocious, usually resorting to circular reasoning or simply just declaring their faith.

Is it right for me to think like this?

In my blog I have a missive against racism, based on the simple mathematical principle of variance. It seems this should also apply to the prejudice I am discussing here.

Basically, whether or not religious people are, on average, less intelligent than others, that does not say a lot about any single religious person. The fact is, human intelligence varies greatly, within nearly all groups. There are enough smart religious people for it to be worth the effort of my giving religious people the benefit of the doubt.

I know this, intellectually.

But, I resent the influence that religious zealots have on society, and this causes a considerable anger that helps feed this bias. Clearly, I need to work on practicing a degree of initial patience, when I encounter those who are burdened with excessive religious belief.


What is your opinion on religious folk?

[5010]

It's hard not to prejudge a social group from anecdotal experiences. When I am among religious people, I notice a lot of them are decent working people with families. In church study groups, they seem to have normal intelligence as far as I can tell. I was a member of an astronomy club for a few years and my impression was the people were highly intelligent, with mostly technical/engineering types of careers, and the majority were religious. Some great minds were religious (source): Copernicus, Bacon, Kepler, Galileo, Decartes, Newton, Boyle, Faraday, Mendel, Kelvin, Planck, and even Einstein, who didn't believe in a personal God but nevertheless considered a non-created universe impossible.

[Captain Chaos]

Newton, one of the few truly great geniuses!

He invented both calculus and Newtonian physics.


But, it is debatable about whether he was truly religious, or just played the part because of considerable social pressure.

[ZNFYRH]

It's perfectly alright for you to feel the way you do.

It's not right for you to act on it.

If someone is ignorant of the science behind something and attributes it to God, ridiculing them is wrong. You should first try to at least tell them what the science says.

If someone knows the science but rejects it, then you should realize that they consider one more important than the other, nothing you can say will convince them, so ridiculing them is still pointless, and wrong.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: ZNFYRH It's perfectly alright for you to feel the way you do. It's not right for you to act on it. If someone is ignorant of the science behind something and attributes it to God, ridiculing them is wrong. You should first try to at least tell them what the science says. If someone knows the science but rejects it, then you should realize that they consider one more important than the other, nothing you can say will convince them, so ridiculing them is still pointless, and wrong.

There may be a time and place for ridiculing, if it can help shock them out of their religious stupor.

But...

Do you feel that my bias is ok, if it does not lead me to ridicule them?

[ZNFYRH]

Every bias is okay.

I would be more concerned about the person who says they have no biases whatsoever.

[Captain Chaos]

I dunno...

I feel like I am violating one of my own principles with this. I feel like I will get better satisfaction in life if I at least give people an initial chance.

When they start Bible thumping, though, I will very likely choose not to associate with them unless necessary.

[brien]

But, I resent the influence that religious zealots have on society, and this causes a considerable anger that helps feed this bias

Chaos; This is merely something you have overblown in importance. What proof do you have that religious zealots have any great influence in society. What kind of influence? Whose society? If you are talking about Iran, I would agree with you. Here are a couple of links that debunks the idea that religion has some major impact in government in the US.

Faith In Public Life

The Red State: Of Statistics, the Radical Right, and Coyotes

When they start Bible thumping, though, I will very likely choose not to associate with them unless necessary

How are they any different than Catholics who block entrances to aborton clinics or are anti gay rights activists?

Edit to add: Tolerance is the key to all great societies. I don't see how these religious fanatics harm you unless you allow them to do it.

[ZNFYRH]

Captain Chaos,

For me, I give them the benefit of the doubt by asking them if they are aware of the science behind something. And this is only for the people who insist that God is the answer... the whole truth... you know.

Once you've given them that initial benefit, it's all done.

[Gods_Mercenary]

You can't help your bias, first of all, and small minded people should be ridiculed anyway, religious or otherwise. I would try to make a distinction, though, between the theists you dislike and the everyday, reasonable, low key theists. It's not fair to judge an entire group based on the experiences with the few, any more than it is to call all atheists christian killing commies. No one would accuse the theist who headed the human genome product of being small minded.

[Jack]

I feel like I am violating one of my own principles with this.

Tolerance is the key to all great societies.

When someone who tries to be tolerant in most situations detects signs of intolerance within themselves it can be disquieting. But it is common. I don't know anyone who is perfectly tolerant. We shouldn't demand perfection from ourselves any more than we expect it from others.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Brien Whose society?

Rural Georgia.

Edit to add: Tolerance is the key to all great societies. I don't see how these religious fanatics harm you unless you allow them to do it.

I allow them to p!ss me off. I think that is part of my problem.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary You can't help your bias, first of all, and small minded people should be ridiculed anyway, religious or otherwise. I would try to make a distinction, though, between the theists you dislike and the everyday, reasonable, low key theists. It's not fair to judge an entire group based on the experiences with the few, any more than it is to call all atheists christian killing commies. No one would accuse the theist who headed the human genome product of being small minded.

I am a deist, which could be considered a subset of theists, although we prefer to distance ourselves from them.

I am quite tolerant to those with tolerant religious beliefs.

Thinking that your god is going to torture all nonbelievers for eternity is not a tolerant belief.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Isherwood When someone who tries to be tolerant in most situations detects signs of intolerance within themselves it can be disquieting. But it is common. I don't know anyone who is perfectly tolerant. We shouldn't demand perfection from ourselves any more than we expect it from others.

Yeah, I agree...

But, I think I will work on it.

After all, being surrounded with religious types where I live, I will have plenty of practice.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Captain Chaos I am a deist, which could be considered a subset of theists, although we prefer to distance ourselves from them. I am quite tolerant to those with tolerant religious beliefs. Thinking that your god is going to torture all nonbelievers for eternity is not a tolerant belief.

Agreed, but as far as I'm concerned, they can believe their God will torture anyone they want in the after life, as long as they aren't acting intolerant.

[Scribbler1]

I think we're talking about two different groups here. In my experience, I would think you are biased against the group that shoves their faith in your face, or feels they are better than others BECAUSE of their religion. The other group keeps their faith to themselves unless invited to discuss it. You can't be biased against THEM because you don't KNOW their religion.

[ZNFYRH]

I agree with Scribbler, and that's the point I was making above.

[jascowhiz0]

Quote by: Captain Chaos I have to confess to a fair amount of bias against religious people. They just often don't seem very bright to me. When I engage them in debate on religious topics, their reasoning is typically atrocious, usually resorting to circular reasoning or simply just declaring their faith. Is it right for me to think like this? In my blog I have a missive against racism, based on the simple mathematical principle of variance. It seems this should also apply to the prejudice I am discussing here. Basically, whether or not religious people are, on average, less intelligent than others, that does not say a lot about any single religious person. The fact is, human intelligence varies greatly, within nearly all groups. There are enough smart religious people for it to be worth the effort of my giving religious people the benefit of the doubt. I know this, intellectually. But, I resent the influence that religious zealots have on society, and this causes a considerable anger that helps feed this bias. Clearly, I need to work on practicing a degree of initial patience, when I encounter those who are burdened with excessive religious belief. What is your opinion on religious folk?

First, not many people know their religion enough to debate it. Second to debate successfully one would need to know both sides and both sides weaknesses. Since no one on this board knows both sides and each sides weaknesses all debate will be frustrating unless its with someone on your side and both sides will think they are right and the other is wrong.

[Jack]

Since no one on this board knows both sides and each sides weaknesses all debate will be frustrating unless its with someone on your side and both sides will think they are right and the other is wrong.

If you're saying that no one on this board knows both the Christian and atheist arguments, you're wrong. I, along with several other non-believers here, was once a very devout Christian. Since I sought out religion, I wasn't a passive, just go to church when it's convenient Christian. I was a youth minister and had every intention of entering seminary. I was always seeking a deeper understanding, a transcendental experience. That desire to get closer to the mystical was what finally caused me to look beyond religion. I realized that the concept of gods was nonsensical and unnecessary for a spiritual life. In fact, they got in the way.

So I am aware of both sides of this topic, and to be completely honest, I can't comprehend anyone over the age of 30 still believing in mythical gods.

[ZNFYRH]

jascowhiz0,

In your post you simultaneously make a profoundly accurate statement and a profoundly ignorant one.

Second to debate successfully one would need to know both sides and both sides weaknesses.

Profound.

Since no one on this board knows both sides and each sides weaknesses

Ignorant.

Only because the members who do know the pros and cons of their religion are also the types who don't debate them.