Giving up your religion

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by theophysics, I have to admit that I would feel empty without Christ in my life.  But I can gurantee there is nothing that will ever shake my beliefs but it is interesting to investigate the matter.  I hate it when I miss the opening to these debates but I'll add my 3 cents anyways.  Before I accepted Christianity I admit that I had many morals and guidlines to follow, but those qualities came from religous parents.  However, my parents beliefs put me in a skeptic frame of mind when dealing with Christianity instead of accepting it true no matter how I felt.  I would also like to note that after observing my family and other FAITHFUL Christians I felt at ease when I chose to accept.  But going back to the morals; Someone mentioned that China and India would mave no morals according to the bible.  Well, you also have to understand that according to the bible everyone descended from a couple with knowledge of morals.  Examples of parents and children moral similarity can be cited all day.  But in order for those morals to change, the children would have to find a better way of living.  Some good morals would stay in line for a very long time unless better ones occured.  Do you see how that works?  If the starting couple had good morals, so would the next, and so on and so forth.  People who fail to accept those morals end up having a bad life and doing bad deeds.  This is a very brief explanation of how morals came about, but I think I would get carpel tunnel if I explained it all.

According to the Bible the first couple was condemned for bad morals. The only way they and their descendents recieve the moral instruction is through revelation. 'Torah' means instruction. According to Judeo/Christian beliefs the rest of the world did not recieve 'Torah'.

There is no evidence that the moral and ethical code of Confucius has any link to Judeo-Christian revelation.

[sigmonic]

As I do not have a religion I suppose I can't fairly answer this however if I were to be say a christian and stoped today I wouldn't be any less of a person. there are moral christian people and there are of course moral atheists. there are atheists that follow christian 'morals' and ignore their beliefs. your beliefs shouldn't decide your morality.

as a few of you had mentioned you felt you had more freedom. I've had a lot of friends in the same boat,. some of which who were hard goin christians for years.. one of which was a hard going christian for 16+ years. heh,. I don't really remember his story but hes a happy go lucky kinda guy.

Now the question is,. could him being a christian for so many years have made him into the great atheist guy he is today? his current moral might be contributed to his years as a christian,. or its atleast a good arguement saying that religion makes good people.

personally I don't see that morality is associated with religion nor should it be.

[samsara15]

I'd have to find another explanation, but I've alrady done that several times.

[CJFreeman]

Originally posted by Plaything48, For those of you that have religion, I have a question which I'd love a good answer to. What do you think would happen to you if you just gave up your religion?

I'd be dead from the heart up.

CJF

[Sonart]

That's an incredibly beautiful answer, CJF.

[corinnesinclair]

Religion is man-made, very little to do with God, so nobody should have scruples about not following a religion, giving it up or ignoring it altogether. What is important is the relationship each of us can have with God, if we wish to have it. That is the core of the issue: do you want to have a personal close relationship with God or don't you? Everything else is secondary and totally useless until you have found the answer.

Corinne Sinclair
http://www.christianresistance.com
http://www.usagovsim.com

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by corinnesinclair, Religion is man-made, very little to do with God, so nobody should have scruples about not following a religion, giving it up or ignoring it altogether. What is important is the relationship each of us can have with God, if we wish to have it. That is the core of the issue: do you want to have a personal close relationship with God or don't  you? Everything else is secondary and totally useless until you have found the answer. Corinne Sinclair http://www.christianresistance.com http://www.usagovsim.com

I have checked out your website in the past and found nothing new or significant.

Many people use the word religion as a stone to throw at other people. As a scape-goat to cast te worlds troubles on, but it is simply a word that refers to what people believe. It can refer to an organized belief, a disorganized belief or just someone who does not believe in anything.

It is just a word, not a disease.

The First couple didn't have bad morals, they had free will.  Choice, and their choices had consequences.  Torah means "law" not instruction.  I'm not sure about your last part.  You have to understand that, on earth, everyone is around Gods presence.  Morals would be non-existent only at the point that God does not exist.  Since God exists everywhere but Hell, which is believed by the highest biblical scholars, then morals are not bound by the reach of the bible.  The bible isn't the main argument for morals anyway, its God's presence

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by theophysics, The First couple didn't have bad morals, they had free will.  Choice, and their choices had consequences.  Torah means "law" not instruction.  I'm not sure about your last part.  You have to understand that, on earth, everyone is around Gods presence.  Morals would be non-existent only at the point that God does not exist.  Since God exists everywhere but Hell, which is believed by the highest biblical scholars, then morals are not bound by the reach of the bible.  The bible isn't the main argument for morals anyway, its God's presence.

The most important element of bad morals is bad choices.

I agree that God's presence is the best arguement for morals. My view of God's presence is likely more universal than yours.


I prefer this definition of 'Torah'. This cited from another site which I can provide a specific reference upon request.

Torah literally means instruction, and does not mean law. For the word law, the Hebrew word khoq(lit. law or decree) is used. Literarilly, Torah can also refer to the first five books of the Bible, among other things.

A modern example of the usage of the word Torah, is used in reference to the study of a particular field science. What is called Computer Science in America, would be called Computer Torah in Hebrew. Physics Torah, Biochemistry Torah, etc.

Much like a father that sets house rules, boundaries, etc. for his children and household, so does HaShem do through His Torah for instruction and teaching, and the ultimate goal of love and holiness. The khoqiym(plural for laws) of HaShem, like the house rules of a father, are just a small portion/subset of the Torah, or divine instruction.

Therefore, it's better to look at the Jewish bible not as just a set of decrees, but rather, as a divine book of instruction.

I agree. My views on God's presence is pretty universal though. I just don't buy the argument of social enviroment creating morals. My worldview is quite the opposite. It looks to me that society is corrupting morals rather than aiding them.

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by theophysics, I agree. My views on God's presence is pretty universal though. I just don't buy the argument of social enviroment creating morals. My worldview is quite the opposite. It looks to me that society is corrupting morals rather than aiding them.

The reality is both forcees have existed in society world wide for all of histroy, but they are expressed in different ways in different cultures and times. I do not think human nature has changed for thousands of years. The ego of human desire, self-importance,denial and self-justification has been with us since the beginning.

I believe that humanity has an innate morality as a part of our Divine created image and revealed instruction from God from age to age and in all cultures and peoples of the world and existence.

As a scientist I also realize that anthropology demonstrates that this innate morality that I believe is Divine is indeed universal through the entire history of humanity and to a lesser degree in animals as shown in the February 2000 issue of DISCOVERY in the article Morals, Apes and Us. Morality is in a way innate in creation of all things by degrees.

[JTsteelblu]

Ask yourself this...Do you believe in all or any of the Greek or Roman Gods that were worshiped prior to many of today's religions, including Christianity? Do you discount them as being false Gods, with no basis in fact or truth? Why? OK...now try to understand the viewpoint of the Atheist. He discounts only one more God than you do! If you can explain why it is that you discount all of the Greek and Roman Gods, you will be on your way to understanding why he discounts yours...and has to right to do so undisturbed or pressured to change his veiw by you or any Government funded group, school, organization! Each to his/her OWN.

[Samildanach]

Thats not really a good argument JT, I'm an atheist and that argument is easily countered. Any religious person just has to say rather than discarding gods people were worshipping different aspects of the same God, all christianity is doing is lumping them all together under one name because they are in reality all the same thing rather than disbelieving in any particular one.

[Sonart]

Therefore, it's better to look at the Jewish bible not as just a set of decrees, but rather, as a divine book of instruction.

You don't actually believe this, right? The 'Divine' part, not the 'instruction' part.

I believe that humanity has an innate morality as a part of our Divine created image and revealed instruction from God from age to age and in all cultures and peoples of the world and existence.

If by 'Divine' you mean the laws of nature and evolution, I'm right there. 'God' being how humans manifest those religious instincts inherited through evolution.

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by Sonart, You don't actually believe this, right? The 'Divine' part, not the 'instruction' part. If by 'Divine' you mean the laws of nature and evolution, I'm right there. 'God' being how humans manifest those religious instincts inherited through evolution.

I will qualify that. Parts ofthe NT are books is the history and laws of how the Hebrew tribes lives and viewed God. It is history of tribes and not the world. The Divine instruction is how the Hebrews view the OT. Torah best means 'instruction' and not law.

Within the NT. I believe there is divine instruction for all times as in the Psalms.

We cannot take the OT as literal, inerrant or relavent today.