Prayer doesn't work

[Lullaby Chainer]

Before I start spitting out statistics and arguments..

If prayer was proven not to work at all, would your beliefs be challenges?

Is there anything that could be presented to you that would convince you that prayer doesn't work?

Does prayer work?

[Alive]

If it didn't work, no one would do it. :)

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Alive If it didn't work, no one would do it. :)

Um, I'm sure you're kidding but that's a good point. Well.. anti-point. Even if it didn't work, people would still do it.. I believe that is the case. I'll explain why as soon as people respond to the questions.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Before I start spitting out statistics and arguments.. If prayer was proven not to work at all, would your beliefs be challenges? Is there anything that could be presented to you that would convince you that prayer doesn't work? Does prayer work?

What do you want prayer to do?

It's communication with God, not a magic formula to get all the goodies you haven't earned...

It works for me...

[Slevin57]

I'm siding with George Carlin on this one.

God has a divine plan. Everything is set. So suddenly here you come with your prayer. What's god going to do if every run down shmuck with a two dollar prayer book can come along and F*ck up his plan?.

[Jagged]

Personally, i think prayer is a just way to do some wishful thinking out loud without sounding absolutely ridiculous to others.

[Alive]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Um, I'm sure you're kidding but that's a good point. Well.. anti-point. Even if it didn't work, people would still do it..

Well, I'm somewhat serious. Most prayers in most religions are set down, no? And they tend to be very general. I don't think any religion states that if you pray for a billion dollars, you will actually necessarily get it. That's not prayer, it's magic--and even magical cultures seem to recognize strong practical limits on the power of magic to control events.

So why do people pray? Not because they think they will necessarily get what they will pray for; it's obvious to anyone that this doesn't happen. No, it's for some other benefit. And if that benefit goes away, there will be no reason for anyone to pray anymore. So it is true that prayer works, in the sense that it generally brings to people what they hope to achieve from it, because if it didn't work, people would not do it.

Prayer has strong meditative effects in the right state of mind.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Slevin57 I'm siding with George Carlin on this one. God has a divine plan. Everything is set. So suddenly here you come with your prayer. What's god going to do if every run down shmuck with a two dollar prayer book can come along and F*ck up his plan?.

Then why do people pray?

[Yasa]

Hope, and fear imo.

[Fangrim]

I'm going with Alive's post, number 11, on this one.

People will pray, even if nothing really "happens," because they still believe and feel a connection with whatever they're praying for, and God.

[ItsDarts]

I think this thread is a lot of potential, but I'd really like some more clear definitions of what prayer actually is.

1. Is praying for someone to get well from cancer an actual request to your god for his intervention?

2. Is reciting, for instance, "The Lords Prayer" a request for your god to give you your daily bread and courage? A lot of this "prayer" is just praising him, does he require or need or want your praise, and why?

3. What is the point in reciting something like the Lords prayer? Are you expecting results, or do you just get a warm fuzzy to think that you are talking to your god and he's actually listening?

4. If a whole church prays for a cancer patient (and they often pray for people of various other things as well) does this somehow influence your god towards your desired goal by mere means of many praying for the same thing? i.e. the squeeky wheel gets the grease?

5. Its often said that if your prayer goes unanswered, its gods will, but isn't it equally gods will if your prayer is answered in a positive way? In otherwords, prayer or no prayer, gods will wasn't going to be changed by prayer. Or can we change gods mind?

[Zhavric]

Prayer (Christian prayer) starts to make a lot more sense when we view Christianity for what it is: a product being marketed to you. Like any product, you want it to accomplish certain tasks to make your life better. The clergy are masters of product spin. If you got what you wanted, it's because of their product. Didn't get what you wanted? It's because you're
A) not using the product properly
B) not understanding how the product actually works
C) any in a trend of excuses that have been improved upon for the last 1600 years.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Christians pray for their loved one's to heal from a disease like cancer.

But why won't God heal amputees?

[Zee-Axis]

Great question!
Why Won't God Heal Amputees?

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Zee-Axis Great question! Why Won't God Heal Amputees?

Give us this day our daily propaganda.

Honestly, I looked through there for something to quote here and tear into, but there really wasn't anything of substance. I can sum it up nicely here:

"Sometimes the human body coincidentally heals itself of disease. Please give our god credit for this.
The human body is incapable of growing new limbs. Please don't blame our god for this."

There. I've just saved you about an hour's worth of reading.

[Mozart1220]

Quote by: Jagged Personally, i think prayer is a just way to do some wishful thinking out loud without sounding absolutely ridiculous to others.

I agree, and because it promotes a sense of confidence, it makes solving the problem or at least accepting it much easier.

When a problem becomes too great to deal with, it's nice to have an invinceable, and always understanding "Father figure" to hand it over to.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: PatrickHenry What do you want prayer to do? It's communication with God, not a magic formula to get all the goodies you haven't earned... It works for me...

I agree with Patrick. Prayer isn't a dedit card; build up enough karma in your life and spend it when you need to. You can lean on your God's shoulder when you need to, but they're not there to do the work for you.

[ItsDarts]

Why aren't the christians here chiming in? This silence speaks volumes.

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: PatrickHenry What do you want prayer to do? It's communication with God, not a magic formula to get all the goodies you haven't earned... It works for me...

I have to disagree with you here, and the bible does too.....

Jesus says in Matthew 21:21:

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

The message is reiterated Mark 11:24:

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.

In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says it again:

Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Jesus is actually in our midst and God answers our prayers.

So you see? It is a spiritual credit card, but if you're an amputee, he doesn't listen.

[Zee-Axis]

Quote by: Zhavric "Sometimes the human body coincidentally heals itself of disease. Please give our god credit for this. The human body is incapable of growing new limbs. Please don't blame our god for this."

So, is god only capable of healing when the affliction is something that the human body could heal on its own?