Why donate? Why pay taxes?

[Gods_Mercenary]

Banged the nail on the head there, of course, you're also asserting that a real democracy is impossible, at least until our nature evolves, because people are lazy and greedy and want a "lion king".

[Athena]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Banged the nail on the head there, of course, you're also asserting that a real democracy is impossible, at least until our nature evolves, because people are lazy and greedy and want a "lion king".

I think I will be a little gentler about our nature. As all social animals we have conflicting demands. We need to look out for ourselves, and we need to take care of each other. How well a group of humans does, depends largely on how well they take of each other. However, our brains are physically limited and this limit tends to reduce our idea of who is important and who isn't, who deserves to eat and who does not. First we take care of ourselves, because we have a brain that alarms us when a need such as thrist, hunger or a need for shelter comes up. Second we take care of family, because our identity includes who is family and our relationships make us aware of each others needs. Third we might take care of friends, depending on our attitude about such matters, and how important we think our friends are.

Making the leap, all civilized people must make, to taking care of everyone in the civilization, is a huge leap to make, and is possible only through religion or ideology, or a dictator who uses force to rule, and can constantly defend this position. That is, only when we are taught, and accept, a religion or ideology, will be moved to care for those outside of our personal circle. Note, we are just apt to eat those outside of our personal circle, as we are apt to care for them.

The decision to kill and eat, or aid and share food with others, depends largely on a leader, and then the history of the social group. The decision becomes our custom, our way, in a couple of generations, and this is how things are done, until another influence comes along- like global warming and having to complete with nations the size of India and China for oil. Like whoops, maybe we need to think beyond our own personal self interest because there is a relationship between us and them, even when we are not aware of it.

Democracy, as I and a leader of Syrain used the term, is a state of mind. Only those with a large consciousness of the rest of the world can actually think democratically. Those who are conscious of only their own needs, can't think democratically, therefore, they must live under a more powerful authority who can force them to do the right thing, even when they don't understand why it is necessary. Education is essential to democracy. It is impossible to manifest Christianity, Islam or democracy without teaching the consciousness of such.

Democracy is not spread with weapons of war, and destroying the order of Iraq claiming this is spreading democracy, was a dumb ass thing to do! :rolleyes: Dumb, dumb, dumb.

So is telling me volconvo is privately owned and what I think doesn't matter, and then asking me to make to make a donation, is a dumb thing to do.

[Athena]

Good morning, I woke thinking because I said we must have good leaders, this means democracy doesn't work. What matters is our judgement of who is a good leader and then our willingness to follow. It is like choosing a good captian of the ship, doctor, lawyer, etc.. None of us are experts in all feilds, nor can any of us do everything equally well. A democracy is a recognition of this fact and social order for choosing the best leaders and replacing them when necessary. It also means, we all have a chance to communicate with the leaders we choose as equals who just have different jobs and therefore different perspectives. LIKE THE GODS YOU KNOW.

We speak of Zeus as the top god, but he wasn't like a king. He was a brother. The gods were brothers and sisters. When the disagreed with each other, they argued until there was a concensus on the best reasoning.
The gods could not kill each other, so conflicts could be resolved by killing the opponent. Each god had her/his area of responsibility and separate point of view. It is by combining the different points of view, that the intelligence of all is much greater than the intelligence of one. Democracy is the intelligence of everyone working for the good of all, as opposed to the rule by a single person or a handful of people, who may not be so smart and fit to rule, but rule because the have weapons and can kill.

Back to the need to communicate, good manners are better than good laws. Only when insist on good manners, do you protect our freedom of speech and ability to speak with the person to whom we need to speak.