Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

pam699 · Mar 17, 2007, 02:25 pm

u say i quote all supporting dean s claim that at the heart of maths are paradoxes that lead to its meaninglesness-
all your maths cohorts are trying to do is redefine away the problems
as in this first quote
But it's nevertheless plausible to think that imposing restrictions on theory to rule out St. Petersburg bath water would throw out some valuable babies as well.

Insofar as this is a paradox it is called Skolem's paradox. It is at least a paradox in the ancient sense: an astonishing and implausible result. Is it a paradox in the modern sense, making contradiction apparently unavoidable?

Any theoretical model is an idealization, leaving aside certain practicalities. "From the mathematical and logical point of view," observes Resnick, "the St. Petersburg paradox is impeccable."

GIVE UP DEAN HAS CHECKMATED YOU ALL

**Jack** · Mar 17, 2007, 02:40 pm

If we give up this discussion, it won't be for the reason you'd prefer to believe. Personally, I don't worship Dean as you appear to do, so I'm disinclined to take his opinions as gospel. Your single-minded focus on Dean is as stifling as any theist's blind devotion to gods. Add to that the nearly incoherent way you communicate and I'm more than happy to quit this discussion.

Zinkovich · Mar 17, 2007, 02:48 pm

LOL Isherwood, I love how you said that all starting with a smile.

Pam, in science nothing is unavoidable-rather, it is inevitable. IF it is waiting to be discovered within our physical realm and in a way that can be measured, it will be found by science some day...

...but we've gone through this before, so an "argh!" to you.

pam699 · Mar 17, 2007, 02:52 pm

HEY YOU WHERE THE ONE WHO QUOTED YOUR MATHS SOURCES ABOUT THE PARADOXES AT THE HEART OF MATHS
and all you did was support deans claim that maths ends in meaninglessness
they r your sources
dont acuss me of treating dean as a god
you r the one treating maths as a god and by your own sources shoot your self in the foot and proves deans thesis
you are all just living with the faith that the world is meaningfull but dean shows you that you r just floating in a sea of meaninglesness so long as u stick to normal logic

your pragon of rationality ends in meaninglesnes as all those pradoxes dean mrahell to his side and your VERY own sources in fact agree with dean

Kamehameha34 · Mar 17, 2007, 04:02 pm

Quote:

Quote by: pam699

HEY YOU WHERE THE ONE WHO QUOTED YOUR MATHS SOURCES ABOUT THE PARADOXES AT THE HEART OF MATHS
and all you did was support deans claim that maths ends in meaninglessness
they r your sources
dont acuss me of treating dean as a god
you r the one treating maths as a god and by your own sources shoot your self in the foot and proves deans thesis
you are all just living with the faith that the world is meaningfull but dean shows you that you r just floating in a sea of meaninglesness so long as u stick to normal logic

your pragon of rationality ends in meaninglesnes as all those pradoxes dean mrahell to his side and your VERY own sources in fact agree with dean

maths r stickin two teh fesh waull very day so dey not float us sea meaningfull n u be dean proves ur normal

pam699 · Mar 17, 2007, 04:51 pm

your parody of me want destroy the fact that you have all in fact prooved deans thesis that all is meaninglessness-your own sources show that -what i have shown is that truth is independent of good grammer even if i spell incorrectly it dosnot derstroy the truth of my ideas for al my mispellings you still underrstood enough to marshelL your sources and shoot yourselveS in the foot

i have shown bad grammer dose not = bad logic or that the ideas expressed in bad grammer are wrong
dean has shown all your views even maths end in meaninglessness
I WOULD SAY YOU AL HAVE BEEN TAKEN ON A JOURNEY AND LEARNT NEW THINGS ABOUY LANGUAGE AND EPISTEMOLOGY

WHAT MORE CAN U ASK OF ME AND DEAN

Kamehameha34 · Mar 17, 2007, 05:12 pm

Quote:

Quote by: pam699

your parody of me want destroy the fact that you have all in fact prooved deans thesis that all is meaninglessness-your own sources show that -what i have shown is that truth is independent of good grammer even if i spell incorrectly it dosnot derstroy the truth of my ideas for al my mispellings you still underrstood enough to marshelL your sources and shoot yourselveS in the foot

i have shown bad grammer dose not = bad logic or that the ideas expressed in bad grammer are wrong
dean has shown all your views even maths end in meaninglessness
I WOULD SAY YOU AL HAVE BEEN TAKEN ON A JOURNEY AND LEARNT NEW THINGS ABOUY LANGUAGE AND EPISTEMOLOGY

WHAT MORE CAN U ASK OF ME AND DEAN

mah argyooment est en teh grommor i seD y u no read iT i broken wurds sentence make 4 u 4 lyfe

**Jack** · Mar 17, 2007, 05:19 pm

Quote:

i have shown bad grammer dose not = bad logic or that the ideas expressed in bad grammer are wrong

That's not really for you to say, is it? We're the ones you're trying to communicate to, and most of us have expressed just the opposite of your conclusion above. Bad grammar can indeed indicate fallacious reasoning and an inability to think logically. If we can't figure out what you're trying to say, your effort to communicate an idea gets lost in the muddle of your pointless method of posting. If you were to speak the way you write, I daresay some may think you're "not all there".

rcne · Mar 17, 2007, 06:37 pm

Fractals, Penrose tiling and Pi. I think that shows the beauty and logic within maths.
Imagination and philosophy have a place in maths, but are not the core of what maths are.
Perhaps you should study math a bit before you discount it for abstraction.
Number theory, cardinal numbers, set theory, they are all useful in our world.

Compugasm · Mar 17, 2007, 08:37 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Kamehameha34

mah argyooment est en teh grommor i seD y u no read iT i broken wurds sentence make 4 u 4 lyfe

Jokingly referred proposed thought name seeing! He apparently gone, shuk come.
Erased wiping mainly nobody, want show they. Posts in maths are in commented form. to repeat, posts in maths are in commented form. Genetic arguments? Star formations? Meanwhile opted road decision mirror.
Ones will leave marks, soften much shorter. Home track your delivery investors? Mayhaps careers, or even customers. Bowlsnfl HAHAHAHA!!.

pam699 · Mar 18, 2007, 12:21 am

nevertheless you shoot yourselves in the foot agian Isherwood understand my bad grammer enough to post hgis sources and shoot hiself in the foot -so for all my bad grammer you all astill did understanmd my logic and arqument
as i say bad grammer nor = bad logic and Isherwood prooves that or else he would not of known to post what he did to try and trefute dean

you see u are all the good grammarians and bad grammer me checkmated you all
learn that regardles of how bad a perssons english they still can speack the truth

COME ON ALL YOU POOR ENGLISH WRITERS AT SCHOOL TAKE HEART JUST BECAUSE U GET LOW MARKS I HAVE PROVEN U CAN RUN RINGS AROUND AL THE GOOD ENGLISH PERFORMERS

Kamehameha34 · Mar 18, 2007, 12:30 am

me broked sentance engrish sklilz but kame stil r0x ur s0x

**Jack** · Mar 18, 2007, 01:36 am

Quote:

so for all my bad grammer you all astill did understanmd my logic and arqument

You used no logic. You're simply parroting and promoting this Dean dude as if he were inerrant. Yes, having studied cryptography allows me to squeeze some sense out of your posts. But it's not easy, the sense not substantial and the effort too great for the reward.

Since you have not indicated otherwise, I'm safe in presuming that your writing style isn't a philosophical statement. I just don't think you know how to type very well, don't know how to use punctuation and can't spell.

Nothing profound or revolutionary about that.

pam699 · Mar 18, 2007, 03:56 am

NEVERTHELESS I CHEACKMATED YOU WITH MY BAD GRAMMER

if bad grammer= low intelligence it dont say much for your intelligence then being cheakmated by a dumb ass

pikatore · Mar 18, 2007, 11:51 am

Quote:

Quote by: pam699

NEVERTHELESS I CHEACKMATED YOU WITH MY BAD GRAMMER

if bad grammer= low intelligence it dont say much for your intelligence then being cheakmated by a dumb ass

Your grammer is SO bad, that whatever it is you are trying to say got lost in translation. I get a headache from reading your posts.

pam699 · Mar 18, 2007, 12:41 pm

it did not get that lost for Isherwood to know what to post in his feable attempt at refuting dean

i communicated my ideas even in bad english -u r all just pissed of i checkmated u -so like all weakminded people when they cant find any real reason to refute just nit pick at bad english to try and salvage some self respect for their defeat u think if u prove i am an idiot cos of bad grammer it rescues from my decvestating destructuiion of all your view-just simple psychology defensive stradegies u r using to selvage you destroyed self-estem

picking bad grammer is the last refuge of the intelectualy challanged QOUTE THAT

rcne · Mar 18, 2007, 02:58 pm

I for one am not intellectually challenged, but you, however, do not present a coherent argument.

If English is not your native tongue, then we can adapt to your structure. Unless that is case, then you need to express yourself in a more consistent manner.

Quote:

In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder a secret order. Carl Gustav Jung

In the quantum world chaos rules, but even there an order appears.

pam699 · Mar 18, 2007, 03:17 pm

mis quote
In quatum world chaos rules, but their even an order apears.

bad grammer but u still get the meaning

pikatore · Mar 18, 2007, 08:22 pm

Quote:

Quote by: pam699

glish -u r all just pissed of i checkmated u -

sorry mate, but you aren't checkmating anyone. you are just blurting out a pile of nonsense, and anyone that tries to make sense of it, you blast into the ground.

type just ONE post that isn't a crazy stream of consciousness, use puncuation, since it helps your argument, and place your ideas on the table nice and clearly. you'll find that peoples responses will be quite different.

pahl · Mar 18, 2007, 08:47 pm

Seems to me you are just bad at math and english, and because of that you try to make them both look "meaningless". Are you proposing that builders go back to measuring "by eye" or not calculate if a buildings support will hold the weight of that building? Cause thats math. And proper English is good because if everyone wrote as bad as you then no one would understand eachother.

And sure bad grammar does not = low intelligence, but proclaiming your own victory when none of the people you are talking to thinks you are making any sense does.

Mar 17, 2007, 02:40 pm	#62 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,209	If we give up this discussion, it won't be for the reason you'd prefer to believe. Personally, I don't worship Dean as you appear to do, so I'm disinclined to take his opinions as gospel. Your single-minded focus on Dean is as stifling as any theist's blind devotion to gods. Add to that the nearly incoherent way you communicate and I'm more than happy to quit this discussion. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Mar 17, 2007, 02:48 pm	#63 (permalink) (top)
Zinkovich Possibly edible? Posts: 783	LOL Isherwood, I love how you said that all starting with a smile. Pam, in science nothing is unavoidable-rather, it is inevitable. IF it is waiting to be discovered within our physical realm and in a way that can be measured, it will be found by science some day... ...but we've gone through this before, so an "argh!" to you. Side effects may include gastrointestinal homicide, theft of luck, apocalyptic hallucinations, and demonic possession. Please do not soak in milk as doing so will result in death.

Mar 17, 2007, 06:37 pm	#69 (permalink) (top)
rcne Moderator/nobody Posts: 1,566	Fractals, Penrose tiling and Pi. I think that shows the beauty and logic within maths. Imagination and philosophy have a place in maths, but are not the core of what maths are. Perhaps you should study math a bit before you discount it for abstraction. Number theory, cardinal numbers, set theory, they are all useful in our world. Live Long and Prosper (Genetics and Capitalism)

Mar 17, 2007, 02:25 pm	#61 (permalink) (top)
pam699 BANNED Posts: 583	u say i quote all supporting dean s claim that at the heart of maths are paradoxes that lead to its meaninglesness- all your maths cohorts are trying to do is redefine away the problems as in this first quote But it's nevertheless plausible to think that imposing restrictions on theory to rule out St. Petersburg bath water would throw out some valuable babies as well. Insofar as this is a paradox it is called Skolem's paradox. It is at least a paradox in the ancient sense: an astonishing and implausible result. Is it a paradox in the modern sense, making contradiction apparently unavoidable? Any theoretical model is an idealization, leaving aside certain practicalities. "From the mathematical and logical point of view," observes Resnick, "the St. Petersburg paradox is impeccable." GIVE UP DEAN HAS CHECKMATED YOU ALL

Mar 17, 2007, 02:52 pm	#64 (permalink) (top)
pam699 BANNED Posts: 583	HEY YOU WHERE THE ONE WHO QUOTED YOUR MATHS SOURCES ABOUT THE PARADOXES AT THE HEART OF MATHS and all you did was support deans claim that maths ends in meaninglessness they r your sources dont acuss me of treating dean as a god you r the one treating maths as a god and by your own sources shoot your self in the foot and proves deans thesis you are all just living with the faith that the world is meaningfull but dean shows you that you r just floating in a sea of meaninglesness so long as u stick to normal logic your pragon of rationality ends in meaninglesnes as all those pradoxes dean mrahell to his side and your VERY own sources in fact agree with dean

Mar 17, 2007, 04:51 pm	#66 (permalink) (top)
pam699 BANNED Posts: 583	your parody of me want destroy the fact that you have all in fact prooved deans thesis that all is meaninglessness-your own sources show that -what i have shown is that truth is independent of good grammer even if i spell incorrectly it dosnot derstroy the truth of my ideas for al my mispellings you still underrstood enough to marshelL your sources and shoot yourselveS in the foot i have shown bad grammer dose not = bad logic or that the ideas expressed in bad grammer are wrong dean has shown all your views even maths end in meaninglessness I WOULD SAY YOU AL HAVE BEEN TAKEN ON A JOURNEY AND LEARNT NEW THINGS ABOUY LANGUAGE AND EPISTEMOLOGY WHAT MORE CAN U ASK OF ME AND DEAN

Mar 18, 2007, 12:21 am	#71 (permalink) (top)
pam699 BANNED Posts: 583	nevertheless you shoot yourselves in the foot agian Isherwood understand my bad grammer enough to post hgis sources and shoot hiself in the foot -so for all my bad grammer you all astill did understanmd my logic and arqument as i say bad grammer nor = bad logic and Isherwood prooves that or else he would not of known to post what he did to try and trefute dean you see u are all the good grammarians and bad grammer me checkmated you all learn that regardles of how bad a perssons english they still can speack the truth COME ON ALL YOU POOR ENGLISH WRITERS AT SCHOOL TAKE HEART JUST BECAUSE U GET LOW MARKS I HAVE PROVEN U CAN RUN RINGS AROUND AL THE GOOD ENGLISH PERFORMERS

Mar 18, 2007, 12:30 am	#72 (permalink) (top)
Kamehameha34 The dingos! Posts: 4,548	me broked sentance engrish sklilz but kame stil r0x ur s0x

Mar 18, 2007, 03:56 am	#74 (permalink) (top)
pam699 BANNED Posts: 583	NEVERTHELESS I CHEACKMATED YOU WITH MY BAD GRAMMER if bad grammer= low intelligence it dont say much for your intelligence then being cheakmated by a dumb ass

Mar 18, 2007, 12:41 pm	#76 (permalink) (top)
pam699 BANNED Posts: 583	it did not get that lost for Isherwood to know what to post in his feable attempt at refuting dean i communicated my ideas even in bad english -u r all just pissed of i checkmated u -so like all weakminded people when they cant find any real reason to refute just nit pick at bad english to try and salvage some self respect for their defeat u think if u prove i am an idiot cos of bad grammer it rescues from my decvestating destructuiion of all your view-just simple psychology defensive stradegies u r using to selvage you destroyed self-estem picking bad grammer is the last refuge of the intelectualy challanged QOUTE THAT

Mar 18, 2007, 03:17 pm	#78 (permalink) (top)
pam699 BANNED Posts: 583	mis quote In quatum world chaos rules, but their even an order apears. bad grammer but u still get the meaning

Mar 18, 2007, 08:47 pm	#80 (permalink) (top)
pahl Igneous Magma Location: Sweden Posts: 261	Seems to me you are just bad at math and english, and because of that you try to make them both look "meaningless". Are you proposing that builders go back to measuring "by eye" or not calculate if a buildings support will hold the weight of that building? Cause thats math. And proper English is good because if everyone wrote as bad as you then no one would understand eachother. And sure bad grammar does not = low intelligence, but proclaiming your own victory when none of the people you are talking to thinks you are making any sense does.