What color is God?

[Boetie]

Quote by: prejudged_Fire Humans wrote down what God told them to. They didn't write the bible, God did. If a guy tells his secretary to write a letter saying "blah blah blah" and she writes a letter saying "blah blah blah", that is the words of the guy not his secretary.

If you are trying to say that the Bible is the word of God then you have one problem which is, 'Interpretation" I hope I wasn't to profane or insulting by suggesting such a thing as hermenuitics.

But it doesn't make sense for God to hand down a word or speech to man and leave it up to man to decide what exactly all this speech and writing means.

Some people can take certain sentences in the Bible especially the graphic ones as being somewhat esoteric or pornographic depending on your frame of mind. But sometimes the interpreter is just as bizarre. Such a book shouldn't be in the hands of someone that doesn't have matturity.

[G. Adams]

God is the Form, or the ideal, of humanity and we are inelegant imitations. I'll try explain what I mean (apologies to those who know Plato already, and apologies for my butchering of an explanation). The idea of a chair is its Form. All chairs are derived from this Form, this ideal. Likewise all humans are recreations of this original Form, of God. However, all things physical can never be accurate replications of the Form, merely substandard derivatives.

To use an analogy, think of a shadow puppet show. God is the hand, and we are the shadows on the wall. We are not God, nor do look exactly like God, but we do bare a resemblance.

PS: Of course this is all bullshit, because it would be highly arrogant of any human to presume an understanding of what God is, and this includes the writers of the Bible or any monotheistic text, presuming he exists at all.

[prejudged_Fire]

But it doesn't make sense for God to hand down a word or speech to man and leave it up to man to decide what exactly all this speech and writing means.

Thats a good point. Its a very very large puzzle which has taken decades to (partially) solve. I say partially because there are still things that haven't been uncovered. But like a puzzle, only one combination (or interpretation as with the Bible) will make sense. Sure you can shove all the pieces together so that it fits but it won't make the pretty picture that they show on the box.
There is only one interpretation that makes sense. Its up to us, with the help of God, to understand it. We can't understand without His help.

[loser]

Alice in Wonderland? There's not one sentence that is the literal truth--all pure fantasy.

How much money are you willing to put on that? Need some proof:

From here: Literature.org - The Online Literature Library

"Alice was beginning to get very tired of sitting by her sister on the bank, and of having nothing to do: once or twice she had peeped into the book her sister was reading, but it had no pictures or conversations in it, `and what is the use of a book,' thought Alice `without pictures or conversation?' "

The very first sentence in the book is meant to be taken literally. It doesn't really matter if it's true or not...it's the intent that matters. Regardless of the truth, "Alice was beginning to get very tired..." is meant to be taken literally,

Although strictly speaking, the rhetorical question "and what is the use of a book without pictures or conversation?" may not be a metaphor, for all intent and purposes, it is a metaphor. Nevertheless, do I need to peruse the text further in order to find a true metaphor? Your argument was against anything in that book being literal. Although you said "literal truth", that was not the argument. We're talking about discerning between what is to be 'taken' as literal and what is meant to be 'taken' as metaphor. Truth (of the statement), in this debate, is IRRELEVANT.

So, is the Bible the literal truth, or is it metaphorical, meaning is it intended to represent something other than its literal meaning?

The Bible is a TRUE instruction manual for mankind, written by CHOSEN men, under the INSPIRATION (or guidance) of God (through His holy Spirit), which contains MUCH metaphor and other 'flowery' language devices.

For example:

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

It's all literal except "the Lamb". The Lamb is a metaphor for Jesus Christ.

Or as you seem to suggest, is it a mixture of the two?

Hopefully, by now, it should be crystal clear (I need help...is "crystal clear" a metaphor?).

And, if a mixture, how do we tell which parts are literally true and which parts are supposed to be metaphorical.

Good question! You're going to need help with that. I'll tell you right now: a LOT of what I know (I would say believe but my convictions are too strong) to be literal is thought by many others to be metaphor. Don't think for a second that believers are any less confused than non-believers...that just isn't the case.

Is the Devil a real being or a metaphor for Sin?

He's real...but NOT composed of flesh and blood (matter).

Was Jonah swallowed by great fish? Was their a flood? Did Jesus rise from the dead? Was Jesus the product of virgin birth?

Amazingly and incredibly but absolutely true!

Ask yourself these questions:

1) Are there any 'fish' (for the purpose of semantics, any creature living in the ocean, such as a whale, should be considered a fish) in existence today that could swallow a man whole?

2) Are floods possible? (Scientific tidbit: If the earth's surface was PERFECTLY smooth, it would stand over a mile deep in water!)

3) Is virgin birth possible?

4} Is it possible to resuscitate the dead?

Only your fourth question, the resurrection of Jesus, requires a modicum of faith. The rest are ALL scientifically feasible and explainable. Yet, with advancements of science increasing exponentially, even this 'miracle' is not that far-fetched.

Adam was a REAL person. The Garden of Eden was most likely a metaphor, in our strictest sense. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is DEFINITELY a metaphor.

If God is omniscient, omnipotent, all-loving, and perfect. Why does he need to allow Satan to slaughter innocent babies as a learning exercise?

Would you love God more if He was the one performing evil instead of His enemy? Do you hate America because we allow the killing of children in Rwanda? Is America the blame for all of the evil in the world because we don't nuke all of the evil regimes?

Besides, as a human being, you find human life somewhat valuable. Do you cringe and cry out every time someone swats a mosquito? Why not? Do you find the life of mosquitoes somehow less valuable than that of humans? Why? And yet, you are a zillion times more like a mosquito than God is like you. You share most of the genetic makeup of a mosquito. A mosquito lives a month, you live a hundred years, and God lives forever. Can you plot that on a graph? Are you beginning to see the abject foolishness of holding God to YOUR terms? He is so much above you that you should be absolutely enthralled (and amazed) that He has even taken notice of mankind. Of course, had He not created man for a purpose, He wouldn't.

Or, if God didn't create Satan, who did?

He 'created' himself. Adolh Hitler wasn't born evil...he became evil (free will). It's the same with Satan. Notice this description (metaphors and all):

Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Humans created religion and wrote the Bible

I say no. How many Bibles and religions have you written and created? If not, why not? Isn't that what humans do?

don't believe sdbest has ever claimed the same superpowers that god has. To reconcile the concept of a loving god with the attributes ascribed to god in the Bible is one of Christianity's biggest challenges, and the one they've been least successful at.

See my answer to that above (the mosquito reference).

[Chris]

Quote by: loser Ask yourself these questions: 1) Are there any 'fish' (for the purpose of semantics, any creature living in the ocean, such as a whale, should be considered a fish) in existence today that could swallow a man whole? 2) Are floods possible? (Scientific tidbit: If the earth's surface was PERFECTLY smooth, it would stand over a mile deep in water!) 3) Is virgin birth possible? 4} Is it possible to resuscitate the dead? Only your fourth question, the resurrection of Jesus, requires a modicum of faith. The rest are ALL scientifically feasible and explainable. Yet, with advancements of science increasing exponentially, even this 'miracle' is not that far-fetched.

give us a break. You cant seriously say that the entire earth flooded and completely filled up with water - without blind faith.

How could the authors of the bible know whether or not Japan flooded? Or Australia? Or Colorado?

[Jack]

hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: It's all literal except "the Lamb". The Lamb is a metaphor for Jesus Christ.

So you accept as literal that Jesus sits on a throne and exhibits wrath? Odd.

Are there any 'fish' (for the purpose of semantics, any creature living in the ocean, such as a whale, should be considered a fish) in existence today that could swallow a man whole?

Even allowing whales as fish, the largest could conceivably swallow a man, but would immediately spit him back up. Most of the largest whales eat krill. They'd choke on something the size of a human. And if it were a great white, it may be able to swallow him whole, the dude won't be alive for long. Yet Jonah supposedly survived three days? That goes beyond plausible.

Only your fourth question, the resurrection of Jesus, requires a modicum of faith.

Yeah, just a touch. A heavy touch.

[jascowhiz0]

Quote by: Chris give us a break. You cant seriously say that the entire earth flooded and completely filled up with water - without blind faith. How could the authors of the bible know whether or not Japan flooded? Or Australia? Or Colorado?

When your entire known world is Mesopotamia, yeah the entire world could flood. Maybe thats why it was mentioned in Gilgamesh too.

[Mozart1220]

When I lived in Salt Lake City, I had the opportunity to visit the Geneological library there. On the wall is a great mural of Jesus in Heaven with children of all colors at his feet. Jesus himself is blonde with blue eyes.

When I asked the lady at the reception desk why Jesus was white when he was obviously born in the middle east, she said "He's been accepted into heaven, that's his PERFECT body. He's accepting these children into the kingdom, where they too will recieve PERFECT bodies.

I left before the conversation about white skin being "perfect" could get started.

[Jack]

Is there a rainbow-colored god for my gay friends who still believe?

[loser]

You cant seriously say that the entire earth flooded and completely filled up with water -

Amazing. I find it extremely curious that you find this 'global' flood anything less than probable. Even though the fossilized remains of 'live' mollusks and other sea creatures have been found on the top of Mount Everest, you probably still reject the plausible explanation (a global flood) in favor of a more convoluted one.

How could the authors of the bible know whether or not Japan flooded? Or Australia? Or Colorado?

Could it be that someone who was able to fly high and fast above the earth's surface told them? We're talking about a super advanced super capable race of aliens here, not some ignorant technologically-challenged race like the humans of today (or yesteryear).

So you accept as literal that Jesus sits on a throne and exhibits wrath? Odd.

Okay, you got me. Maybe the throne part is a metaphor, too. Like it would be a metaphor to say that GW sits on the throne in America. However, once Jesus returns to earth to set up His kingdom, He probably will have a literal throne (like the Queen of England and the king of Denmark). Of course, He could have a literal throne now; there's really no way of knowing, outside of going up to heaven.

Even allowing whales as fish, the largest could conceivably swallow a man, but would immediately spit him back up.

Conjecture. There's no way for you to know that.

Most of the largest whales eat krill.

It didn't eat him.

They'd choke on something the size of a human.

More conjecture.

Yet Jonah supposedly survived three days?

Which makes it all the more likely that it was a whale which swallowed him. Being a mammal, it breathes air and it could have been a source of air for Jonah, as well. A pretty fantastic tale, to be sure, but not impossible. Also, who knows what large whales (or other fish) have become extinct since that time. Then, of course, there's always another possibility: it could have been some submarine-type vessel that just looked like a giant fish...or was described that way, for lack of a better word.

Yeah, just a touch. A heavy touch.

No, as I explained to you, just a tiny bit. The question should be what will become possible in the distant future. With nano technology already producing cameras the size of molecules, people shouldn't be so quick to poo-poo the ability of science.

[Kamehameha34]

Quote by: loser God is invisible...that's why people think He doesn't exist. If you want to know what the first humans looked like, think biscuits. If they are white, they are still raw. If they are black, they are burnt. What you are looking for is a golden brown.

So the matter is settled. God's Mexican.

[Kamehameha34]

Amazing. I find it extremely curious that you find this 'global' flood anything less than probable. Even though the fossilized remains of 'live' mollusks and other sea creatures have been found on the top of Mount Everest, you probably still reject the plausible explanation (a global flood) in favor of a more convoluted one.

There is no feasible explanation for water rising several miles above sea level for 40 years without technological aid..

The reason for fossilized sea creatures at the top of mount everest is tectonic shifting. There was once an ocean between the Indian subcontinent and Asia, then the shifting tectonic plates closed the gap. They kept pushing together, so the Himalayas formed - with the tell-tale fossilized remains of sea creatures.

Tectonic shifting is scientific fact. Saying that sea-creature fossils at the top of mount everest validates the great flood is like saying the existence of the Hoover Dam validates a god of concrete.

[prejudged_Fire]

you guys are all looking for scientific explanations of wether or not a flood is possible. Whether someone can be raised from the dead. Whether or not God is real.. You must realize that God can supercede any scientific laws of nature that he himself created. He can do anything whether it is scientifically "possible" or not.

Is there a rainbow-colored god for my gay friends who still believe?

1 Corinthians 6:9,10 - "What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators ... nor men who lie with men ... will inherit God's kingdom." (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)
So no I doubt it.

When I asked the lady at the reception desk why Jesus was white when he was obviously born in the middle east, she said "He's been accepted into heaven, that's his PERFECT body. He's accepting these children into the kingdom, where they too will recieve PERFECT bodies.

I've heard some people say some crazy things concerning God and Jesus but this tops it all. Thats just insane to say something like that. Sounds like Hitler to me.. the perfect race being blonde hair and blue eyes and such.

So you accept as literal that Jesus sits on a throne and exhibits wrath? Odd.

Me personally? No. I think that is metaphorical as well. Sitting on a throne just represents rulership.

give us a break. You cant seriously say that the entire earth flooded and completely filled up with water - without blind faith. How could the authors of the bible know whether or not Japan flooded? Or Australia? Or Colorado?

It is possible that the whole world flooded at one point in time. Ever hear of Pangaea?? Back then, there was only one continent.

The Garden of Eden was most likely a metaphor.

A metaphor for what? There are places in the bible that describe the Garden of Eden and it's location. It is possible that it could have been North of Nineveh, slightly East of the tip of the Tigris River.
Back to Satan.

From where did Satan com? All of [God's] works are perfect; he is not the author of unrighteousness; so he did not create anyone wicked. (Deut. 32:4; Ps. 5:4) The one who became Satan was originally a perfect spirit son [an angel] of God. When saying that the Devil "did not stand fast in the truth," Jesus indicated that at one timethat one was "in the truth." (John 8:44) But, as is true of all of God's intelligent creatures, this spirit son was endowed with free will. He abused his freedom of choice, allowed feelings of self-importance to develop in his heart, began to crave worship that belonged only to God, and so enticed Adam and Eve to listen to him rather than obey God. Thus by his course of action he made himself Satan, which means "adversary." - Jas. 1:14,15 Why did not God destroy Satan promptly after he rebelled? Serious issues were raised by Satan: (1) The righteousness and rightfulness of [God's] sovereignty. Was [God] withholding from mankind freedom that would contribute to their happiness? Were mankind's ability to govern their affairs succesfully and their continued life truly dependent on their obedience to God? Had [God] been dishonest in giving a law that stated that disobedience would lead to their death? (Gen. 2:16, 17; 3:3-5) So, did [God] really have the right to rule? (2) The integrity of intelligent creatures toward [God].By the deflection of Adam and Eve the question was raised: Did [God's] servants really obey him out of love or might all of them abandon God and follow the lead being given by Satan? This latter issue could not be settled by merely executing the rebels. Not that God needed to prove anything to himself. But so that these issues would never again disrupt the peace and well-being of the universe, [God] has allowed ample time for them to be settled beyond all doubt. That Adam and Eve died following disobedience to God became evident in due time. (Gen. 5:5) But more was at issue. So, God has permitted both Satan and humans to try every form of government of their own making. None have brought lasting happiness. God has let mankind go to the limit in pursuing ways of life that ignore His righteous standards. The fruitage speaks for itself. As the Bible truthfully says: "It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." (Jer. 10:23) At the same time God has given his servants opportunity to prove their loyalty to him by their acts of loving obedience. and this in the face of enticements and persecution instigated by Satan. [God] exhorts his servants saying: "Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him tat is taunting me." (Prov. 27:11) - Reasoning From the Scriptures Pages 363-4

Unless otherwise indicated, all Scripture references and quotes are taken from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.

[Jack]

you guys are all looking for scientific explanations of wether or not a flood is possible. Whether someone can be raised from the dead. Whether or not God is real.. You must realize that God can supercede any scientific laws of nature that he himself created. He can do anything whether it is scientifically "possible" or not.

This is why we can refute the need for gods and argue against the logical inconsistencies in religion and yet fail to undermine the faith of believers.

We know of nothing else in the universe that defies the laws of nature as believers suggest gods can. When they propose a being who can do anything, no matter how illogical, how impossible, they enter the land of imagination, of superstition and fantasy.

These gods should be no more believable to a free thinker than supposing that comic book super heroes can come to life. You can believe that Superman is real all you want, he'll only be real to you. And no amount of logic or pointing out the obvious will change your mind.

[prejudged_Fire]

did superman ever write a book that told the future? if he did, I'd say he's real

[Jack]

No, but like the Bible, there are plenty of (comic) books written by others that describe him and his abilities. These books treat him as though he was real, so he must be, eh?
There's no evidence that the Bible was written by anyone other than human authors, just like those comic books.

There's a problem with suggesting the Bible foretells the future. If the future is already set, then free will is a joke. If humans have the means to influence and change the future, then all prophecy is nonsensical. Scientifically, we don't even fully understand time yet. We can't say for a fact that the future is what we presume it to be.

[Slevin57]

The best part about biblical prophesies is nobody notices them until after they come true.

As to what color is God....
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "

God could easily have been referring to the soul, in fact many philosophers believe the soul is the "little part of god" in everyone. Man was made from the earth (sand) and from the earth they shall return (paraphrased).

I would put God on the spirtual level, Jesus the intermediate ("No one shall know by father by through me") and humans on the physical level.

SPIRITUAL
INTERMEDIATE
PHYSICAl

[Renwood]

A literal, physical interpretation of Genesis is a great way to get a bad footing at the very outset of the literary expedition into the Bible.

[loser]

There is no feasible explanation for water rising several miles above sea level for 40 years without technological aid..

Well, I wouldn't rule out technological aid.

The flood waters had completely receded after one year (not forty years).

Its very feasible. In one breath, you say that Mount Everest was once a sea bed and the next breath you say that it coudn't be covered by water. Tell me how that geographical location (the Himalayas) could have been a sea bed WITHOUT being under an ocean! If you can do that, you'll win the argument. If not, you need to think before you speak again. Either Everest lay beneath the ocean or it didn't. If it did, then the flood story is confirmed. A lack of 'ocean' fossils would disprove a global flood. Presence of these fossils corroborate the story.

To say otherwise is like saying the shell fossils on Everest validate the gods of magma

The reason for fossilized sea creatures at the top of mount everest is tectonic shifting.

.

It can shift all it wants but unless the land mass was submerged below the ocean, no shells.

There was once an ocean between the Indian subcontinent and Asia, then the shifting tectonic plates closed the gap.

Actually, this ocean that you are referring to covered the whole earth. You're having a hard time grasping this.

They kept pushing together, so the Himalayas formed - with the tell-tale fossilized remains of sea creatures.

They would have pushed up AFTER the flood. During the flood, they were underneath the water.

Tectonic shifting is scientific fact.

So is flooding.

[loser]

the perfect race being blonde hair and blue eyes and such.

Sounds good to me... :-)

Actually, it's dark brown hair and blue eyes that make up the perfect race.

And a mischievous smile...