Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Technosoul · Mar 1, 2007, 01:16 am

The Mormons have their mainstream religion which conforms to the federal laws about marrages. However they also have a lot of Mormon fundamentalists who follow the teachings of Smith to the note, meaning one man can marry a number of wives who all share the the same house.

Some of the so-called cults (operating outside the main church) are into population control so that they can have many more women then men, otherwise they would not maintain the resources for men to have duplicate wives. To do this the tell a mother and father to "cast out" boy children at age 15, the younger one first, if so ordered. (if the family has too many boys for children). The family is then no longer permitted to speak to the evicted son and he cannot enter the church services anymore. This has created a group known as "the lost boys" who must live like homeless people, the best way they can, they often group up and share a abandoned building. Meanwhile the mainstream Mormons do not object to this off-shoot because they do in fact "live by the Mormon book" relative to such marrage arrangements.

And so based on that data (aired on CNN - see their webpage) do you think the Feds should crack down and start arresting the Mormon cult leaders or should they "let it be"?

Praxius · Mar 1, 2007, 11:46 am

Sounds like an infringement on human rights if you ask me.

If Muslims are not allowed to beat, kill, behead whoever their religion dictates in your or my country, then the Mormons shouldn't be allowed to do this to children.

They should have a home over their head, have education, a family who cares, and should be taken care of by the parents until they're at least 18 years of age.

If anybody else kicked their kids out on the street at that age, they'd be going to jail, etc.

What about child support? What about all the other factors that the average citizen has shoved up their arses?

Religion has been used for way too many excuses in life to avoid responsibility and one's own actions.

I'd crack down on these loons for sure.

This isn't China, and this isn't a Communist country trying to regulate population.... this is just an excuse to have a crap load of women to screw.

grandpa · Mar 1, 2007, 11:58 am

Quote:

Quote by: Praxius

Sounds like an infringement on human rights if you ask
me.
If Muslims are not allowed to beat, kill, behead whoever
their religion dictates in your or my country, then the
Mormons shouldn't be allowed to do this to children.

That's a problem with religion--it opens the door up to profound ignorance.
We can call it a "spiritual" ignorance, but it's ignorance nonetheless.
That being said, the gov't shouldn't be sanctioning any marriage.

Grandpa h.

Deus_ultima · Mar 7, 2007, 05:33 pm

Quote:

Quote by: grandpa

That's a problem with religion--it opens the door up to profound ignorance.
We can call it a "spiritual" ignorance, but it's ignorance nonetheless.

Yup.

CX Champ · Mar 8, 2007, 12:23 am

I think something should be done, this shoudn't be allowed to continue. It's against the law, so whats the question? Warren Jeffs, the "Prophet" of the FLDS church has been arrested and on the FBI's most wanted for sex crimes.

But then again, do we want another Waco on our hands? If they are going to do it they need to do it smart, and not bring ATF agents with new toys they want to test out.

**Jack** · Mar 8, 2007, 01:27 am

Quote:

I'd crack down on these loons for sure.

I'm certainly no fan of religion. But if you do this, other religious groups are sure to protest since they will maintain that it could be their practices the government decides to criminalize next. We've been through this with the peyote usage by Native Americans and with the Rastafarians. It's not an easy situation to deal with in a country that promises the freedom to practice one's religion. At what point do the laws of the land supersede the right of people to practice their religion?
As noted about beliefs that include stoning and beheading, we're going to have to face this issue again in the future. At this point we don't seem to have a consistent national policy.

Eclipse · Mar 8, 2007, 02:25 am

Polygamy is seen in more of the world's cultures then monogamy. We're just used to it here in the West. But polygamy is practiced less. Various forms of marriage, descent and kinship are culturally based and that includes monogamy.

The problem I see here is not with form but rather the practice to maintain it. The means to maintain this practice are infractions on the individual rights of those children. This is an issue of human rights and that precedes religion in this country, plain and simple. If it did not then sacrifices would be permitted because a God(s) deemed it necessary and whispered it in some wackos ear.

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

I'm certainly no fan of religion. But if you do this, other religious groups are sure to protest since they will maintain that it could be their practices the government decides to criminalize next.

I'm sure the majority of religions deem this as evil in the first place.

But I see your point.

With some polygamous cultures they usually married women young, and men older. This gave an artificial surplus of women. Or some men simply didn't marry or just married monogamously. Or polygamy turned matriarchal.

They need to implement restrictions on these cults. Their means to provide a surplus of women is absurd and inhumane in the US.

**Jack** · Mar 8, 2007, 03:52 am

Now this topic has got me wondering, "if I were one of those who defend religion in any circumstance, what would I think if a religion was formed that practiced human sacrifice (NeoAztecs?) or advocated rape? Would I support freedom of religion or support the law?" I suppose they could defend either point of view.

sevendogs · Mar 8, 2007, 08:38 am

This seems a dead end question. There are odd families among others, who are not Mormons. Some men live with two or three wives and some make a family out of two husbands and a few wives.... What is going to happen to them? Dr. Phil still did not work with them "in depth'.

sevendogs · Mar 8, 2007, 08:42 am

Excellent comment. Religion must be restricted and regulated. Some groups change their faith and going to bizarre believes and start deadly practices will be always popping up. Crowds love charismatic leaders. This is not different from substance abuse, may be even more dangerous on some occasions. We should make available and enforce education in science for all. How about Satanists? Mass suicidal cults?

Mar 1, 2007, 01:16 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,936	Should the Feds crack down on Mormon fundamentalism? The Mormons have their mainstream religion which conforms to the federal laws about marrages. However they also have a lot of Mormon fundamentalists who follow the teachings of Smith to the note, meaning one man can marry a number of wives who all share the the same house. Some of the so-called cults (operating outside the main church) are into population control so that they can have many more women then men, otherwise they would not maintain the resources for men to have duplicate wives. To do this the tell a mother and father to "cast out" boy children at age 15, the younger one first, if so ordered. (if the family has too many boys for children). The family is then no longer permitted to speak to the evicted son and he cannot enter the church services anymore. This has created a group known as "the lost boys" who must live like homeless people, the best way they can, they often group up and share a abandoned building. Meanwhile the mainstream Mormons do not object to this off-shoot because they do in fact "live by the Mormon book" relative to such marrage arrangements. And so based on that data (aired on CNN - see their webpage) do you think the Feds should crack down and start arresting the Mormon cult leaders or should they "let it be"?

Mar 8, 2007, 12:23 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
CX Champ Lv5 Night Elf Location: USA Posts: 37	I think something should be done, this shoudn't be allowed to continue. It's against the law, so whats the question? Warren Jeffs, the "Prophet" of the FLDS church has been arrested and on the FBI's most wanted for sex crimes. But then again, do we want another Waco on our hands? If they are going to do it they need to do it smart, and not bring ATF agents with new toys they want to test out. All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind. - Aristotle

Mar 8, 2007, 03:52 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,209	Now this topic has got me wondering, "if I were one of those who defend religion in any circumstance, what would I think if a religion was formed that practiced human sacrifice (NeoAztecs?) or advocated rape? Would I support freedom of religion or support the law?" I suppose they could defend either point of view. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Mar 1, 2007, 11:46 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Praxius Mass'Debator Posts: 4,730	Sounds like an infringement on human rights if you ask me. If Muslims are not allowed to beat, kill, behead whoever their religion dictates in your or my country, then the Mormons shouldn't be allowed to do this to children. They should have a home over their head, have education, a family who cares, and should be taken care of by the parents until they're at least 18 years of age. If anybody else kicked their kids out on the street at that age, they'd be going to jail, etc. What about child support? What about all the other factors that the average citizen has shoved up their arses? Religion has been used for way too many excuses in life to avoid responsibility and one's own actions. I'd crack down on these loons for sure. This isn't China, and this isn't a Communist country trying to regulate population.... this is just an excuse to have a crap load of women to screw.

Mar 8, 2007, 08:38 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
sevendogs Igneous Magma Location: Virgnia, USA Posts: 425	This seems a dead end question. There are odd families among others, who are not Mormons. Some men live with two or three wives and some make a family out of two husbands and a few wives.... What is going to happen to them? Dr. Phil still did not work with them "in depth'.

Mar 8, 2007, 08:42 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
sevendogs Igneous Magma Location: Virgnia, USA Posts: 425	Excellent comment. Religion must be restricted and regulated. Some groups change their faith and going to bizarre believes and start deadly practices will be always popping up. Crowds love charismatic leaders. This is not different from substance abuse, may be even more dangerous on some occasions. We should make available and enforce education in science for all. How about Satanists? Mass suicidal cults?